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I've tried using the search, but could only find allusions to this debate and not any actual debate on this. I want to know the community's opinion on if jetbikes that charge through/into cover strike at I1?

From what I read in the BRB: No, they strike at normal initiative. I base this on:
1. The jetbike rules that say jetbikes always move over terrain/other models. (P 45)
2. The charge rules say that models charge following all the same rules as in the movement phase. (P 21)
3. The rules for charging through difficult terrain specify that a model that charges through difficult terrain causes the squad to strike at I1. (P 22)

Since jetbikes will always move over terrain and never through it they will never have to strike at I1.

BRB FAQ: http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m3440036a_40K_RULEBOOK_v1.5_September_13.pdf

Q: Do models that ignore difficult terrain when moving or charging still fight at Initiative step 1 if they charge through difficult terrain? (p22)
A: Yes.

Even though they might be hovering, they'll still be taking a Dangerous Terrain test if they start or end in Difficult Terrain. There are no rules to imply that they are high enough off the ground to negate the terrain entirely. Combined with the above HIWPI is that they are reduced to I1.

 Quanar wrote:
BRB FAQ: http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m3440036a_40K_RULEBOOK_v1.5_September_13.pdf

Q: Do models that ignore difficult terrain when moving or charging still fight at Initiative step 1 if they charge through difficult terrain? (p22)
A: Yes.

Even though they might be hovering, they'll still be taking a Dangerous Terrain test if they start or end in Difficult Terrain. There are no rules to imply that they are high enough off the ground to negate the terrain entirely. Combined with the above HIWPI is that they are reduced to I1.

I would argue that the jetbike rules imply just that: Jetbikes move 'over' all terrain/ models. Also, per my argument above that FAQ does not apply since they never move 'through' difficult terrain when they charge.

If even as a jetbike I still count as moving through DT when I charge does that also mean I can't charge someone if there is another unit blocking my path because the charging rules prohibit you from moving through enemy models?

FKaos wrote:
If even as a jetbike I still count as moving through DT when I charge does that also mean I can't charge someone if there is another unit blocking my path because the charging rules prohibit you from moving through enemy models?

The Jetbike rules allow you to charge over intervening models, as it is more specific than the rule in the Assault section. I didn't mention RAW, as debating the difference between the intent of "through" and "over" in the FAQ would bore me to tears.
If you were charging from one side of a forest to a unit clear of the other side I might consider it, but not otherwise.

You asked for opinions. The above is mine.

Do the models have frag grenades or equivilents?

if not they swing at I1.


Ignoring terrain for movement purposes does not ignore the terrain for assault purposes.

Eihnlazer wrote:

Ignoring terrain for movement purposes does not ignore the terrain for assault purposes.

Where does it say this? The jet bike rules say they always move over terrain/models freely, and the charge rules say follow all the same rules as for movement.

I'm not trying to be pedantic. I am just trying to see if there is a good RAW, or even RAI, argument out there against this. I agree that it feels somewhat wrong, and for now I plan to just let my opponent make the call. At some point though I would like to make sure I am playing by the book one way or the other.

moving over terrain does not say anything about ignoring the effects of charging through terrain.

Have they charged?
Are they in difficult terrain?
Do they have any rule that allows them to ignore the charging through terrain rules?

If the answer is not yes to all three then they strike last.
A jump unit without frag grenades would be in the same boat if they use their jump pack to charge.

So through and over are the same thing?

yes effectively for assault

Eihnlazer wrote:
yes effectively for assault

Since you've asserted it I'm sure you can prove it. Please do so.

Well i will do my best tommorow when i have my rulebook and time. Fixing to go to work atm

rigeld2 wrote:
So through and over are the same thing?

Absolutely not! For instance, if there was difficult terrain in between the jetbike and its target, but its takeoff and landing are clear, then there is no difficult terrain roll and no effect on initiative. But taking off from or landing in terrain? Yeah, I'm going to call that a subset of "through". There's no minimum distance for "through".

"As part of it's charge move" is all that is required for a model to count as having moved through. If I end my movement in difficult terrain part of my movement, the terminus is in dt.

Since the entire move is 'over' terrain I don't see how any of it, including the terminus, is in/through DT, so I don't see how you can argue that. Nowhere does it say you land at the end of your move, just that you sometimes have to take a dangerous terrain test.

The only real argument I have seen that actually tries to use the BRB to argue that they should strike at I1 is that through and over are the same thing, which is kind of a ridiculous argument. Everyone else seems to be going with the 'no, because no.' argument.

BRB faq states no

jetbikes fall into the catagory of ignoring difficult terrain

they do not negate the effects of the terrain should their move start or end in the terrain (taking dangerous tests as normal)

while you may be ignoring the movement penalty for the terrain you have no rule to backup that you ignore the charging through terrain with regards to inititive penalties due to lack of frag grenade equivilants.

How about no because you incure penalties when you end your turn in DT? Being over DT incurs a penalty just as being in it for jump troops who also incure the same assault penalty.