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Hello all, this is my first delving into using Dark Eldar to ally into Eldar for use in a Seer Council list. As I am relatively new to Dark Eldar if I made some utterly horrible mistakes then I apologize ahead of time

New list:

2x Farseers on bikes w/ Spears - 260 pts
6x Warlocks on bikes, 2 Spears - 310 pts
Baron - 105 pts

Troops:

5x Avenger w/ Serpent, SL, SC, Holo - 210 pts
5x Avenger w/ Serpent, SL, SC, Holo - 210 pts
3x Jetbikes, Shuriken Cannon
3x Jetbikes, Shuriken Cannon
5x Warriors, Blaster w/ Venom 2x Splinter Cannons, Grisly Trophies - 130 pts

Heavy:

Ravager, Flickerfield, Grisly Trophies - 120 pts

Fast Attack:

7x Warp Spiders - 133 pts
7x Warp Spiders - 133 pts

Total 1733

Little wiggle room for possible Wraithknight or any other additions I need. Better?

Updated the list here from below. Thanks!

I personally don't like Haywire Wyches. They are a suicide squad, no better way to put it, yet you still need them to be alive at the end to capture objectives. Its a straight swap between Haywire Wyches and a 5 man blaster squad (both are 60pts) and the warriors allow you to play much more conservitively. Also the Trueborn squad could be adaqately replaced by 2 Ravagers or a single Fire Prism while giving extra points for Griesly Throphies (work very well with council). Blasterborn are simply to much of a target when there is only a single unit of them, while 2 ravagers will give you much more consistant results.

I don't like the Autarch, because all i can think about is that is he worth 2 warlocks? 4 Warlocks simply isn't enough to garentee the powers you NEED to make a Council workable, such as Protect and Enpower. For a council to work there are 3 powers you would want (you only need 1 of the 3, not all 3) to make the unit survivable, those being conceal + Baron for a 2+ cover save while Turbo boosting, Protect/Jinx to grant a 2+ save or lower saves and Fortune, cause fortune. You are only garenteed one of these, which is negated by ignore cover weapons. Long story short, deeply consider how much the Autarch means to the unit, and if he is worth what they lose out without hte extra warlocks. Also consider dropping a spear or two, you only need half of them to have them tops.

Alex

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
I personally don't like Haywire Wyches. They are a suicide squad, no better way to put it, yet you still need them to be alive at the end to capture objectives. Its a straight swap between Haywire Wyches and a 5 man blaster squad (both are 60pts) and the warriors allow you to play much more conservitively. Also the Trueborn squad could be adaqately replaced by 2 Ravagers or a single Fire Prism while giving extra points for Griesly Throphies (work very well with council). Blasterborn are simply to much of a target when there is only a single unit of them, while 2 ravagers will give you much more consistant results.

I don't like the Autarch, because all i can think about is that is he worth 2 warlocks? 4 Warlocks simply isn't enough to garentee the powers you NEED to make a Council workable, such as Protect and Enpower. For a council to work there are 3 powers you would want (you only need 1 of the 3, not all 3) to make the unit survivable, those being conceal + Baron for a 2+ cover save while Turbo boosting, Protect/Jinx to grant a 2+ save or lower saves and Fortune, cause fortune. You are only garenteed one of these, which is negated by ignore cover weapons. Long story short, deeply consider how much the Autarch means to the unit, and if he is worth what they lose out without hte extra warlocks. Also consider dropping a spear or two, you only need half of them to have them tops.

Alex

You cant get 5 man blaster squads as you can only take 4 blasters. If you mean a 5 man warrior squad then that is different

Also Blasterborns are Elites and he can only take 1 in an allied list.

Realistically you should just get rid of 1 squad of wyches and get a Ravager which will deal with armor a lot more effectively and then drop the other wych squad for a 5 man kabalite squad in a Venom.

Also I thought most Council's had 6 Warlocks?

Also the points for the Blasterborn are wrong, IIRC 4 Blasterborn in a Venom should be 173 pts. I am guessing you gave them 4 Dark Lances rather than Blasters.

The seer council is a very good build, be careful though it wont win you any friends unless you going to a tournament to win.

To make it work you will need to change a couple things.

You need 2 farseers, fortune is absolutely necessary, a small council is not worth its points, a fotuned large council is, one farseer doesn't have a good enough chance of getting fortune to make it worth spending 55 points per model on warlocks.

You need 6+ warlocks, you will take saves, and against things like ap 2 ingorves cover, you will lose models, ideal is probably 8 but 6 is minimum. The other thing is the council loses models in combat, its pretty inevitatble so you need abaltive warlocks that have double copies of the primaris/powers you don't need.

Also one of the biggest benefits of the council is multi charging and locking units into combat, more bodies means more targets hit.

I would highly suggest cannons on the wave serpents, if you keep them.

Warriors are probably better than wyches, have been trying to run wyches but its true that they have very little purpose, they just wont get into range of the land raider before they get shot off the board, you need grisly trophies so that the first turn powers are gauranteed to go off.

Take a ravager before the trueborn venom.

Warp spiders are very good, but they are best against vehicles that your council is already very good at killing. Using them to rend 2+ armor units is a possibility but not necessarily the best use of them/ the points, consider add a wraithknight as it is much better at taking down 2+ armor boffins and works equally well against AV 13-14.


The suppor to a council is just as important as the council makeup itself, so playtest, it might be that a wraithknight and 3-6 3x bike units plays best, or multiple wave serpents with DA/Gardians, this hasn't really been ironed out and depends on what your likely to face.

Thanks everyone for the replies!

@Alex - only room for one Ravager in the list since DE are the allies, but point well taken on including it over the Blaster Trueborn and Wyches. Secondly, since the Baron is jump infantry would I be able to Turbo-Boost? I was under the impression that only bikes had this option (unless they FAQed the Baron somewhere). Lastly, point taken on the Autarch and including more Warlocks. I can certainly do 2 more warlocks and probably squeeze another Farseer in there if I shuffle up some points.

@Shingen - durp, I just got the points wrong. 50 more points than I thought I had! There's a Warlock! Also, are saying run one allied troop unit? Dropping the Wyches (which I'll do) for a Warrior squad and the other for a Ravager nets me enough points to switch the Autarch for a second Farseer, so that's good. But then I worry about only having 3 Troop units. I guess I only had 2 durable ones to start so no real change there.

@tiber55 - It is meant to be competitive, I have numerous other lists that are much more fun to play against then I imagine this would be to. I kind of addressed your points above about upping both the Warlocks and Farseers. I can also drop a few Spears to make the points work. I run Serpents a lot, and run some with cannons and some without. If the points are there then I can add them. Ah the Wraithknight. As much as I would like to run one, I like the Spiders (and I already have them). I know all the benefits to having one, and the points are about equal to the two squads of Spiders, but I don't own one. I have a friend that does so I can always play test it to see what works best. I do have a number of bikes and could replace the Serpents with bikes, so I can see what works best.

New list:

2x Farseers on bikes w/ Spears - 260 pts
6x Warlocks on bikes, 2 Spears - 310 pts
Baron - 105 pts

Troops:

5x Avenger w/ Serpent, SL, SC, Holo - 210 pts
5x Avenger w/ Serpent, SL, SC, Holo - 210 pts
3x Jetbikes, Shuriken Cannon
3x Jetbikes, Shuriken Cannon
5x Warriors, Blaster w/ Venom 2x Splinter Cannons, Grisly Trophies - 130 pts

Heavy:

Ravager, Flickerfield, Grisly Trophies - 120 pts

Fast Attack:

7x Warp Spiders - 133 pts
7x Warp Spiders - 133 pts

Total 1733

Little wiggle room for possible Wraithknight or any other additions I need. Better?

Yes and yes

Baron can't turbo boost so you have to keep him in coherency, preferably at the front to tank with the 2+ invul.

2x Farseers on bikes w/ Spears - 260 pts
6x Warlocks on bikes, 2 Spears - 310 pts
Baron - 105 pts

This combo is pretty standard. However, I'd try to max out HS and drop the Warp Spiders.

You need to adjust the list again. Blaster warriors are elites not troops. I would suggest you drop the blaster from the warriors. Drop the jetbikes and then add a 4 man trueborn squad with blasters in a venom.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 wuestenfux wrote:

2x Farseers on bikes w/ Spears - 260 pts
6x Warlocks on bikes, 2 Spears - 310 pts
Baron - 105 pts

This combo is pretty standard. However, I'd try to max out HS and drop the Warp Spiders.

+1, you could get 2 prisms or 3 war walkers for that price. Walkers would have better range and more weapon options.

I just ran one at the 11th Co GT this weekend. Two things of note.

1. I rolled Fortune 3 out of 7 games. (I had 2 Farseers).
2. I lost it on turn 1 against a single Dreadknight. Bad rolls and got swept and I had Fortune. I lost it again on turn 2 against Tyranids due to Shadow of the Warp and another bad assault.

Sorry, one last note. Take the Shard of Anaris for Fearless.

It wreaked havoc against Necrons and Chaos Marines. Without Fortune it sucked against O'Vesastar and Chaos Demons.

 Sarigar wrote:
I just ran one at the 11th Co GT this weekend. Two things of note.

1. I rolled Fortune 3 out of 7 games. (I had 2 Farseers).
2. I lost it on turn 1 against a single Dreadknight. Bad rolls and got swept and I had Fortune. I lost it again on turn 2 against Tyranids due to Shadow of the Warp and another bad assault.

Sorry, one last note. Take the Shard of Anaris for Fearless.

It wreaked havoc against Necrons and Chaos Marines. Without Fortune it sucked against O'Vesastar and Chaos Demons.

Congratulations on the placement!

Fortune needs to be up all the time. Otherwise, the Council will crumble, and with 6+3 bodies it will not last long since the enemy will pour all its fire power into it.

Shard is a bad idea. It removes independent character doesn't it?

Shingen wrote:
Shard is a bad idea. It removes independent character doesn't it?

The status of being an IC is important to the viability of the council.

Shard does not remove IC status. I foget the name, but that is another item that gives Stealth/Shrouding, Fearless and Hit and run and removes IC status. The Shard is an AP3 weapon that makes the bearer Fearless.

 Sarigar wrote:
Shard does not remove IC status. I foget the name, but that is another item that gives Stealth/Shrouding, Fearless and Hit and run and removes IC status. The Shard is an AP3 weapon that makes the bearer Fearless.

The Shard is not AP3, it's Rending with Fleshbane/ID in a challenge. The item you are thinking of is the Mantle of the Laughing God, which does remove IC status.

The Shard is a decent take on a Seer Council, but 40 points is a lot for something the Council won't make much use of (you really shouldn't ever be taking morale checks from shooting or assault, and when you're forced to by an ability like Fear, LD10 means you pass 9 out of 10 times). You might just be better prioritizing Embolden/Horrify when you know you're in a matchup where Fearless will be useful. The bonuses in a challenge are ok, but situational and the Council generally doesn't mind declining challenges, and the base weapon profile is not much better than the Witchblade/Singing Spear.

Ignore me, brainfart moment!

 Sarigar wrote:
Shard does not remove IC status. I foget the name, but that is another item that gives Stealth/Shrouding, Fearless and Hit and run and removes IC status. The Shard is an AP3 weapon that makes the bearer Fearless.

mantle of the laughing god.

That's the badger.

@Shingen - the Warriors are not Trueborn, just plain Kabalites with a single Blaster. Figured 15 pts for another S8 lance isn't bad

@everyone else - I can certainly drop the spiders for 3 Walkers, which leaves 73 points left over. Spending the 40 pts for the Shard would fill some of that so it's something to try. Besides the Baron's 2++, is there a reason to have Dark Eldar? i.e. can I run the Council without them? Removing the Baron nets me two more Warlocks, for the points of the Warriors I can get another Jetbike squad (or a Spider squad), and ditching the Ravager gets me a Prism. Thoughts?

Thanks again everyone!

 djm55 wrote:
@Shingen - the Warriors are not Trueborn, just plain Kabalites with a single Blaster. Figured 15 pts for another S8 lance isn't bad

@everyone else - I can certainly drop the spiders for 3 Walkers, which leaves 73 points left over. Spending the 40 pts for the Shard would fill some of that so it's something to try. Besides the Baron's 2++, is there a reason to have Dark Eldar? i.e. can I run the Council without them? Removing the Baron nets me two more Warlocks, for the points of the Warriors I can get another Jetbike squad (or a Spider squad), and ditching the Ravager gets me a Prism. Thoughts?

Thanks again everyone!

You should not run the council without baron, you need the stealth he provides, and the hit and run is integral to the use of the council, both in the movement it gives you and the ability to get out of bad matchups, mainly screamer star and things with 2+ armor.


I would suggest working on the list a little more if its truely competative.

You need to probably try to get all spears in the council, i know you see alot of lists with 4-5 but having them all gives you the ability to use the council against air targets and land raiders if necessary, since you have no other way of reliably dealing with AV14/flyers, having 8 twin linked str 9 spears would do the trick.

Also I don't run the council without the shard, you will hear people say they shouldn't be taking checks, but its not gauranteed and having fearless is a wonderfull thing. Also put it on the 2nd farseer so he can accept challenges, being able to ID things with rending is very good especially since your at worst most likely a 4++ re-rollable to the attacks back if there are any.

Working with the council more you will find that one of the best tactics is to turbo boost / run turn 1 to set up a turn 2 charge. The baron is not a meatshield he is necessary for combat so put him in the rear and turbo boost a long straight line towards the opponent. When this happens unless you leave a warlock behind or turbo boost your venom/ravager your going to be out of range of grisly trophies, this is why I have been trying to work out weather minimum dark eldar (1 venom with warriros and baron), or going with 2-3 grisly tanks is best. Competatively if your going first 1 is enough, the question becomes if your going 2nd is 1 enough or do you need 2-3 to have one survive for you to re-roll on your turn.

Honestly the ravager isn't going to help out a ton, I would probably playtest dropping the ravager and a warp spider unit for a wraithknight and 2 spears than drop 1 bike unit for the other 2 spears and the shard.

Shadows of the Warp caused me to not get Embolden off. Not rolling Embolden in another game caused me to not be Fearless. And you can lose an assault which is when Fearless is very important. The Jetseer can kill light infantry but are not very good at killing 2+ armor.

Practice is probably the most beneficial. I did very well against things I practiced with but O Vesastar or Demons was very hard especially without Fortune.