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Made in us
Fighter Ace






Denver, CO

On page 121 I would reference the statement within Deploying Infiltrators and Redeploying Scouts.

First, both players deploy their forces (apart from any units left kept as reserves or that chose to use their Infiltrate Special Rule)

This would seem to me to dictate that you must have chosen to have either left those units at the end to be in either Reserve or to have used their Infiltrate Special Rule.

The USR would allow them to be deployed last as Infiltrators.
The USR would grant them Outflank if you had chosen to keep them left in Reserve.

As you must declare whether or not they are in Reserve or have chosen to use infiltrate per the deploying infiltrators text I would think that you are required to declare which of those options they are using during the Normal Deployment of the Rest of your Force, at the same time you determine which half of your total units are being kept in reserve during Normal Deployment. If you're not going to deploy the Infiltrators, they would never benefit from the use of the Infiltrators rules to Deploy Last as they are not being deployed.

Or to put it another way, you must state they are using their Infiltrate special rule to Deploy using that rule, this allows them to Deploy last. If they are going in reserve, they will never deploy, and thus don't benefit from the Infiltrator special rule to deploy last, but they get the Benefit of Outflank. If you declare they are using Infiltrate, they must deploy as the rule only applies to them being deployed last, not going into reserves last.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Or yet another way, the rule doesn't say that Infiltrate bypasses the rules for declaring reserves during the Normal Deployment phase of all your units. As Infiltrators as specifically mentioned within a paragraph of deployment apart from when Reserves are declared, you wouldn't be able to place them in reserve as that step will have already occurred.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2013/11/13 21:54:43


 
Made in us
Fighter Ace






Denver, CO

Filthy Sanchez wrote:
@ Hindsight and Bobaram -

I'm still under the impression that I CAN'T deploy a unit with infiltrate at any point before the "deploy infiltrators" step. Please read the wording of the rule. "...Models with infiltrate deploy last..." It doesn't say "can deploy last", it doesn't say "if using the infiltrate USR." It dictates that units with the infiltrate USR HAVE to deploy last. There's no place in the rules that override this requirement to deploy last, which means the only time I get to declare what they're doing, is during the "deploy infiltrators" step.

If we decide that the wording of the infiltrate rule is optional, meaning that I can deploy during the "normal" deployment step (which is what you're both suggesting I HAVE to do if I want to deep-strike or outflank), then what stops me from taking a USR with negatives associated with it, like slow-and-purposeful, and calling it optional as well?


It's not the wording of the infiltrate rule that is optional, it's the wording of the deployment rules that state you must declare you are using the infiltrate rule as opposed to placing it in reserve. If the unit is going into Reserve it is not deploying. Per the wording of the Infiltrate USR Outflank is only granted to the unit IF it is placed in reserves. In order to be in Reserves you must declare it as such during the beginning of your deployment when you choose to place up to half your total models into Reserves. If one goes with the idea that Infiltrate is part of the entire deployment (as an entire section of the game) and merely goes LAST within the Deployment Portion then you must still declare the unit in Reserve during the same time as the rest of your army. Yet again, Deploying a unit is placing it on the table, Models in Reserve are not deployed at this time.

If you look at Reserves it says that you can choose not to Deploy up to half your army, these units are kept in Reserve. Therefore Reserves is when a model is not deployed. It also further goes on to say you must clearly explain the organization of your Reserves to your opponent.

Combine this when it says in the Deploy Infiltrators Step that it occurs After you have deployed your entire army(with the exception of Reserves and those who chose to use their infiltrators special rule) then infilitrators and Reserves are quite clearly Separate Entities, and must be declared by the time this step occurs. Infiltrate will grant them Deployment at this step, provided they are not in Reserves.

Combining both of these rules you see that Deployment is the act of placing your models on the table, if you choose to place the Infiltrators in Reserve they count as the half of the army that you are not deploying and are kept in Reserve. Reserves is a separate Rule from Infiltrate and therefore Infiltrate does not change the Reserves rule outside of the fact that it grants outflank, it does not say in it's wording that it changes when Reserves are declared.

You would declare you are placing said unit in Reserves at the time you tell your opponent what units are in reserve, and per Infiltrate could declare they are now using Outflank. Since the step clearly divides between infiltrators and units in reserve then you can see that infiltrators are not reserves. As before you've reached this step you have already declared whats in reserve and per the reserves rules you must explain clearly to your opponent the organization of your reserves, if you decide after declaring your reserves to place a unit into reserves you have violated the rule stating they must have a clear understanding of your reserves. As infiltrate applies to Deploying your units last, if they are in Reserves they are NOT deploying, they are going into reserves and therefore are not deployed and do NOT use the infiltrate rules in regards to Deploying Last.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/11/14 17:43:28


 
 
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