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My group almost never plays with allies, because we are all sort of puritans. We like the army we have for the fluff or look, so there's no powergaming, so I have very little experience with allies.

But I was thinking about how clearly dominating Tau are, due to this edition being the edition of clearly favouring shooting. Tau tactics seem to be the same every game, "see if you can get all the way up to my gunline!" and the fact that we still have no reliable nutcracker tactic to crack that nut with should be a clear indicator of how powerful Tau are. They can sit on a tactic that they know full well that you are well aware that they will use, and they will STILL win in a majority of games.

A small weakness they have had has always been their complete lack of a psychic presence, both offensive and defensive. They've been able to cover it fine, but it was still there.
With Codex Inquisitor, does this mean the most brutal shooting force now has access to very cheap prescience inquisitors as well?

I mean, is there anything in allies rules stopping inquisitors from throwing that primaris power on Tau troops? Or have GW just made a clear God-tier army even better?

Inquisition is desperate allies with tau...

 Purifier wrote:
My group almost never plays with allies, because we are all sort of puritans. We like the army we have for the fluff or look, so there's no powergaming, so I have very little experience with allies.

But I was thinking about how clearly dominating Tau are, due to this edition being the edition of clearly favouring shooting. Tau tactics seem to be the same every game, "see if you can get all the way up to my gunline!" and the fact that we still have no reliable nutcracker tactic to crack that nut with should be a clear indicator of how powerful Tau are. They can sit on a tactic that they know full well that you are well aware that they will use, and they will STILL win in a majority of games.

A small weakness they have had has always been their complete lack of a psychic presence, both offensive and defensive. They've been able to cover it fine, but it was still there.
With Codex Inquisitor, does this mean the most brutal shooting force now has access to very cheap prescience inquisitors as well?

I mean, is there anything in allies rules stopping inquisitors from throwing that primaris power on Tau troops? Or have GW just made a clear God-tier army even better?

You're taliking as if the Inquisition are battle brothers with tau.

Like I said, I was wondering if anything stopped them from using it. This was really a throw-up between YMDC or general discussion. Given a "no, they can't" it becomes just a rules question, and should be in YMDC. Given a yes, it would have been more of a discussion on the current state of affairs.

I'm glad I was wrong.

On the flipside, any imperial army can now have cheap plasma syphon,

 Bobthehero wrote:
On the flipside, any imperial army can now have cheap plasma syphon,

Well, that's not a buff for your team, so that one works as a sort of universal anti-tau now. At least in theory. The item is not as amazing as it sounds, having to go on a rather squishy character and costing quiter a lot for one item.

Not to mention that the Tau-player can just stay outside of it's 12" bubble.

Not if you move in with a valkyrie and double the size of the bubble thanks to the flyers size and thaanks to its speed, cripple the tau gunline at turn 2

I don't know what a plasma syphon does (I'm guessing gets hot in 12") but surely as Tau have pulse rifles it's nothing to do with their standard armament.

But as I don't know the rules for it i could be wrong.

Boniface wrote:
I don't know what a plasma syphon does (I'm guessing gets hot in 12") but surely as Tau have pulse rifles it's nothing to do with their standard armament.

But as I don't know the rules for it i could be wrong.

Its BS 1 for all plasma weapons in 12", I believe that the GK FAQ includes pulse weapons on this list.

Q: What counts as a plasma weapon for the Ulumeathi Plasma Syphon? (p62)
A: All Plasma weapons, as well as Eldar missile launchers firing plasma missiles, burst cannons, starcannons, all Tau pulse weapons and any weapon described as using ‘plasma’ as its effect or in its special rules

Obv ion, rail and missile weapons are not effected but crippling all smal arms fire with 150 points can be a huge gain if the valkyrie or land riader survives. Or just add some crusaders.

then there missile suits would bring down the flier and the guy inside, and open up the rest of yuor army

 ninjafiredragon wrote:
then there missile suits would bring down the flier and the guy inside, and open up the rest of yuor army

The reason why I never mentioned putting him in a flyer. No one ever puts the GK one in a stormraven.

I do!

Actually I would put it in a land raider redeemer and use the scout rule from the book relic. This would put the unit near the Tau gunline turn 1 or 2. It would also cause some serious damage and as long as you have something to keep the riptides from charging and kill longstrike you should be reasonably safe.

Actually now that I think of it nobody does landraider spam like a codex inquisition player.

Codex Inquisition will actually be a bit of a thorn in the Tau's side. Plasma syphoons and prescience are going to be very annoying. There is also easy access daemon hammer force weapons if you can get into CC with the riptides.

Not to be an arse, but I thought bubble effects do NOT work from inside a transport?
Or should we start putting ethreals in devilfish, DA libbies in raiders, etc?

 BoomWolf wrote:
Not to be an arse, but I thought bubble effects do NOT work from inside a transport?
Or should we start putting ethreals in devilfish, DA libbies in raiders, etc?

Auras do, targeting special abilities and psychic powers do not.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ansacs wrote:
Actually I would put it in a land raider redeemer and use the scout rule from the book relic. This would put the unit near the Tau gunline turn 1 or 2. It would also cause some serious damage and as long as you have something to keep the riptides from charging and kill longstrike you should be reasonably safe.

Actually now that I think of it nobody does landraider spam like a codex inquisition player.

Codex Inquisition will actually be a bit of a thorn in the Tau's side. Plasma syphoons and prescience are going to be very annoying. There is also easy access daemon hammer force weapons if you can get into CC with the riptides.

And it wont be hard to get into combat, That book relic gives them, the unit they are with and their dedicated transport scout on a passed LD10 test.

So landraider crusader full of crusaders and a priest, 3++ rerollable saves. Not to mention Rad and psychotroke grenades.

 pizzaguardian wrote:
Q: What counts as a plasma weapon for the Ulumeathi Plasma Syphon? (p62)
A: All Plasma weapons, as well as Eldar missile launchers firing plasma missiles, burst cannons, starcannons, all Tau pulse weapons and any weapon described as using ‘plasma’ as its effect or in its special rules

Obv ion, rail and missile weapons are not effected but crippling all smal arms fire with 150 points can be a huge gain if the valkyrie or land riader survives. Or just add some crusaders.

Not anymore. That FAQ only applies to the GK version. C:I has a different version which explicitly only effects plasma weapons "as defined in the 40k rulebook", which means three specific weapons: plasma pistols, plasma guns, and plasma cannons. No other weapon is reduced to BS 1.

 Purifier wrote:

I mean, is there anything in allies rules stopping inquisitors from throwing that primaris power on Tau troops? Or have GW just made a clear God-tier army even better?

As mentioned, there is. But Eldar can however do it for about the same price with a Farseer on a jetbike coming in just a lil over the cost of two Inqusitors. And then min-squads of jetbikes as some cheap token scoring.

Personally I think it might be cool to have an inquisitor working with the tau, fluff wise - what better anti-demon allies than the little blue guys!

Oh, and give it time - tau will fade, like all armies do.
* codex hoppers will move to eldar and marines etc.
* eventually the net will figure out how to beat them, and then the codex hoppers will jump again.

I would comment more - but there are already of dozens and dozens of "how to beat army X: threads....no need to beat that horse any more....
(I have not lost a single game to the new tau yet).

But back on fluff - I could see some great stories and game ideas around the Ordo Malleus working with tau!!!
(and orks for that matter...what a hoot!).

 Krellnus wrote:

Boniface wrote:
I don't know what a plasma syphon does (I'm guessing gets hot in 12") but surely as Tau have pulse rifles it's nothing to do with their standard armament.

But as I don't know the rules for it i could be wrong.

Its BS 1 for all plasma weapons in 12", I believe that the GK FAQ includes pulse weapons on this list.

All the tau player will do then is use marker lights to up the bs of his shots back to normal.

I bet theres some rules lawyering about to happen involving the wording of desperate allies and the fact that the inquisitors aren't an allied force

But back on fluff - I could see some great stories and game ideas around the Ordo Malleus working with tau!!!
(and orks for that matter...what a hoot!).

Orks and Nids are the only xenos who can't get this gak.

 Dakkamite wrote:
I bet theres some rules lawyering about to happen involving the wording of desperate allies and the fact that the inquisitors aren't an allied force.

I doubt it. The rules even give an explicit example of treating Tau as desperate allies.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Gitsmasher wrote:
All the tau player will do then is use marker lights to up the bs of his shots back to normal.

You mean ignore it entirely. The C:I version has no effect on any Tau weapon.

In this case the rules lawyers won't have a foot to stand on. How would they handle e.g. psychic powers? Would they suddenly in the lawyer speech become battle brothers?

My codex does not prevent me from allying Tyranids, Codex trumps rulebook, ergo I can ally Tyranids as my best buddies?

 Peregrine wrote:

 pizzaguardian wrote:
Q: What counts as a plasma weapon for the Ulumeathi Plasma Syphon? (p62)
A: All Plasma weapons, as well as Eldar missile launchers firing plasma missiles, burst cannons, starcannons, all Tau pulse weapons and any weapon described as using ‘plasma’ as its effect or in its special rules

Obv ion, rail and missile weapons are not effected but crippling all smal arms fire with 150 points can be a huge gain if the valkyrie or land riader survives. Or just add some crusaders.

Not anymore. That FAQ only applies to the GK version. C:I has a different version which explicitly only effects plasma weapons "as defined in the 40k rulebook", which means three specific weapons: plasma pistols, plasma guns, and plasma cannons. No other weapon is reduced to BS 1.

I know the RAW becomes quite clear if, as you say, it states "as defined by the 40k rulebook," but as a point of interest for the RAI, doesn't the new Tau book have a section that defines which of their weapons are plasma weapons?

Umm... Inquisition are not Battle Brothers with Tau.

Also, try some LOS blocking Terrain, up to half the terrain placed could be LOS blocking based upon the selection method. Put down proper terrain for 6th Edition and some of that advantage is mitigated.

 Zagman wrote:
Umm... Inquisition are not Battle Brothers with Tau.

Yep, that was handled in the first two replies. Conversation moved on.

 Purifier wrote:

 Zagman wrote:
Umm... Inquisition are not Battle Brothers with Tau.

Yep, that was handled in the first two replies. Conversation moved on.

I was pointing out to reinforce how a simple reading of the rules would have answered your own question.

The main reason I posted was the second part of my previous post about Tau and proper LOS Blocking terrain.

Inq plasma syphon has NO effect on anything in the tau army, it only affects plasma weapons as defined in the 40k rulebook

Does the GK syphon still affect Tau as of this point? I would assume so...this is GW wer're talking about here.

I can just see those Inquisitors shaking their fist at the guy opposite them as they get pelted by pulse rifles/bio plasma and cursing the fact they bought the cheap knockoff plasma syphon on the hive world instead of going right to the manufacturer.