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Ok. I'm going to not put a list up. I'm going to tell you my rough thought process, and I want people to criticise and tell me how you would take it. There are very few things that MUST remain. Namely 1 thing in fact. EVERYTHING must be able to come in in drop pods. I want a kind of alpha strike force. I wanted to do it with ultra marines, but it seems this isn't the best tactic for an alpha strike list. So considering how useful stern guard seem to be, I'm contemplating crimson fists with Pedro kantor as he makes them scoring.

I am looking at around 7 drop pods in total, I was looking at an honour guard squad, 3 stern guard squads and 3 tactical squads.

So, can this work? I want to be quite competitive with this list. Is the supplement worth looking at?

Please help.

Hmm. My advice is that if you take Sternguard, don't make them 10man units. For example: Deep Strike down, pop a 120pt vehicle, then get slaughtered by small arms in the enemy turn. There will be much "sigh" to be had with an expensive 10man unit.

It's okay to take 5-7 man units. That gives you more points for tacticals and that expensive honor guard.

I play Blood Angels so I always recommend Dreads but if you're playing C:SM you really have no reason to take them. Thunderfire cannons can take Drop Pods but it seems a bit ridiculous to drop long range fire support in the middle of the opposing army

 bocatt wrote:
I play Blood Angels so I always recommend Dreads but if you're playing C:SM you really have no reason to take them. Thunderfire cannons can take Drop Pods but it seems a bit ridiculous to drop long range fire support in the middle of the opposing army

I wouldn't recommend that. But buying your cannons a pod and keeping it in reserve empty can allow your initial drop to be more devastating.

I would always go with a 10 man Sternguard squad. When they hit the ground they can combat squad into 2 fire teams I would recommend putting 2 meltas into one fire team and as many combi-meltas as you wish.

White Scars can be pretty good for a Sternguard list as well. Hit & Run allows your shooty Sternguard to get out of combat and do what they do best, shoot things.

Kantor can also be pretty good giving your guys the extra attack is a real plus and allowing you to re-roll ones on any of your bolter weapons can be really powerful. And your elite soliders are scoring so another big win with that one.

Devestators and Thunderfire Cannons can be a good way to get extra pods in turn 1. Stick them behind an agies line with some anti-air and off you go. Or just stick with tacticals with special and combi-weapons.

Didn't I write you up a list last week with 4 sternguard squad and 3 tacticals?

Just change out a sternguard squad for an honor guard squad and call it a day.

Search "Drop Pod Manifesto." There was a 100+ post brainstorm sesh about a week after the codex dropped discussing all the strengths/weaknesses/best practices with different chapters and maximizing drop pod armies.

That said, as a pure alpha strike force, I don't think you can get better than Salamanders (with Vulkan...which is the type of minutae we discussed in the manifesto thread haha).

TL flame weapons, master crafted melta just make for a brutal T1. If you craft it to include at least 2 TFCs in pods, you can already use the empties to drop 3 elite slot pain train units T1. These were predominantly Sternguard units loaded to the teeth (4-6 Combi-meltas, 0-2 Heavy Flamers) sometimes with a single Ironclad mixed in for flavor.

Between the TFCs and combat-squaded Sternies, you generally can cripple most armies T1. After that, troops can come in. There was some arguments over which would be optimal. Some said naked bikes, others naked scouts, still others LSS borne scouts, and some small tac squads in pods themselves. I'll let you decide what you like.

That general build I think is the best Alpha strike you can get out of the marine book.

 labmouse42 wrote:
Didn't I write you up a list last week with 4 sternguard squad and 3 tacticals?

Just change out a sternguard squad for an honor guard squad and call it a day.

You did. And it's because of that suggestion that I'm keen to build the list around stern guard. But I have realised that ultra marines aren't the best tactics for a drop pod assault.

Ultramarines give you the chapter tactic of rerolling 1s.
Since you can't cast psychic powers on the turn you drop in, your forced to rely upon either vulcan's ability, the ultramarines ability, or a warlord trait to give those rerolls.

I personally don't agree with The Shrike on his theory that salamaders are the best. TL flamers are good, but melta spam is not the best in the meta today IMHO.
Of course, there is more than one way to do it -- and everyone's experiences are different. We might both be right in our areas of the country

 labmouse42 wrote:
Ultramarines give you the chapter tactic of rerolling 1s.
Since you can't cast psychic powers on the turn you drop in, your forced to rely upon either vulcan's ability, the ultramarines ability, or a warlord trait to give those rerolls.

I personally don't agree with The Shrike on his theory that salamaders are the best. TL flamers are good, but melta spam is not the best in the meta today IMHO.
Of course, there is more than one way to do it -- and everyone's experiences are different. We might both be right in our areas of the country

What chapter tactics would you use?

I've been working on some other things. I'll have to put some thought into it and will post in the Tactics thread you posted.

 labmouse42 wrote:
I've been working on some other things. I'll have to put some thought into it and will post in the Tactics thread you posted.

Thanks!

There has to be some merit to using the Sentinels book since you're going to be spending the whole game within Rapid Fire range. The loss of Relics might sting but a tooled-up HQ monster was never the goal anyway.

It's also worth remembering that you don't need to deploy in a Pod you've purchased and so there is massive merit in taking Pods you may no intention of ever riding. The obvious one here is the Thunderfire, where you would deploy it normally and then use the Pod as deployable, Impassable terrain that also lets you optimise the turn-1 strike with the maximum hitting power.
If you want a fluffier, 'pure' Pod army then I guess the Thunderfire is out. As always it comes down to the Special weapons to carry the day and so Sternguard-Combis are your best friend. Ironclads are good for a laugh and I cannot recommend the new Inquisitor highly enough, Servo Skulls are glorious.

OK, I've had a go and come up with this......

2000 Pts - Codex: Space Marines Roster

Total Roster Cost: 2000

HQ: Vulkan He'stan (1#, 190 pts)
1 Vulkan He'stan (Warlord)

: Command Squad (6#, 180 pts)
4 Command Squad + Flamer x4 + Apothecary
1 Apothecary
1 Drop Pod + Locator Beacon

Elite: Sternguard Veteran Squad (11#, 320 pts)
9 Sternguard Veteran Squad + Combi-Meltagun x2 + Heavy Flamer x2
1 Veteran Sergeant + Power Sword
1 Drop Pod

Elite: Sternguard Veteran Squad (11#, 330 pts)
9 Sternguard Veteran Squad + Combi-Meltagun x2 + Heavy Flamer x2
1 Veteran Sergeant + Power Fist
1 Drop Pod

Elite: Sternguard Veteran Squad (11#, 330 pts)
9 Sternguard Veteran Squad + Combi-Meltagun x2 + Heavy Flamer x2
1 Veteran Sergeant + Power Fist
1 Drop Pod

Troops: Tactical Squad (11#, 220 pts)
9 Tactical Squad + Meltagun + Multi-melta
1 Veteran Sergeant + Plasma Pistol + Upgrade to Veteran Sergeant
1 Drop Pod

Troops: Tactical Squad (11#, 215 pts)
9 Tactical Squad + Flamer + Multi-melta
1 Veteran Sergeant + Power Sword + Upgrade to Veteran Sergeant
1 Drop Pod

Troops: Tactical Squad (11#, 215 pts)
9 Tactical Squad + Flamer + Multi-melta
1 Veteran Sergeant + Power Sword + Upgrade to Veteran Sergeant
1 Drop Pod

No-one ever seems to field the most obvious drop pod configuration; the Deathwind Missile Launcher.

Drop your alpha strike, and leave multiple AV12 missile pill boxes within the enemy deployment zone. They've got to either destroy those immediately (ignoring your other forces) or have a next turn multiple Str5 pie plate shenanigans on their hands (by dealing with the contents).

IMO this is the only way to field them, otherwise they aren't even an annoyance with an assault 2 Str4 bolter (what's the point).

What's that? With 7x Drop pods, that's 4x turn 2 pie plates, and by turn 3 it's 7! Say bye bye horde armies!

 Skabfang wrote:
No-one ever seems to field the most obvious drop pod configuration; the Deathwind Missile Launcher.

Drop your alpha strike, and leave multiple AV12 missile pill boxes within the enemy deployment zone. They've got to either destroy those immediately (ignoring your other forces) or have a next turn multiple Str5 pie plate shenanigans on their hands (by dealing with the contents).

IMO this is the only way to field them, otherwise they aren't even an annoyance with an assault 2 Str4 bolter (what's the point).

What's that? With 7x Drop pods, that's 4x turn 2 pie plates, and by turn 3 it's 7! Say bye bye horde armies!

Probably because you cant shoot them first turn, dropping in is cruising speed, so only snap firing for you and you cant snap fire templates! Added in with the poor range and extra expense it is easy to see why they are not included.

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
OK, I've had a go and come up with this......

2000 Pts - Codex: Space Marines Roster

Total Roster Cost: 2000

HQ: Vulkan He'stan (1#, 190 pts)
1 Vulkan He'stan (Warlord)

: Command Squad (6#, 180 pts)
4 Command Squad + Flamer x4 + Apothecary
1 Apothecary
1 Drop Pod + Locator Beacon

Elite: Sternguard Veteran Squad (11#, 320 pts)
9 Sternguard Veteran Squad + Combi-Meltagun x2 + Heavy Flamer x2
1 Veteran Sergeant + Power Sword
1 Drop Pod

Elite: Sternguard Veteran Squad (11#, 330 pts)
9 Sternguard Veteran Squad + Combi-Meltagun x2 + Heavy Flamer x2
1 Veteran Sergeant + Power Fist
1 Drop Pod

Elite: Sternguard Veteran Squad (11#, 330 pts)
9 Sternguard Veteran Squad + Combi-Meltagun x2 + Heavy Flamer x2
1 Veteran Sergeant + Power Fist
1 Drop Pod

Troops: Tactical Squad (11#, 220 pts)
9 Tactical Squad + Meltagun + Multi-melta
1 Veteran Sergeant + Plasma Pistol + Upgrade to Veteran Sergeant
1 Drop Pod

Troops: Tactical Squad (11#, 215 pts)
9 Tactical Squad + Flamer + Multi-melta
1 Veteran Sergeant + Power Sword + Upgrade to Veteran Sergeant
1 Drop Pod

Troops: Tactical Squad (11#, 215 pts)
9 Tactical Squad + Flamer + Multi-melta
1 Veteran Sergeant + Power Sword + Upgrade to Veteran Sergeant
1 Drop Pod

I run a version of this list although I also bring 2 Assualt squads with dual flamers. It hits unbelievably hard, however you are weak to fliers so if you often face Stormravens, Vendettas, or Doom-fliers it may be a challenge. Otherwise it is reliable against pretty much any mech or foot list.

I don't really ever see fliers in my meta. The occasional single storm raven, and the odd single tau sun shark. So I'm ok there. I've modified the list slightly, dropped all the vet sgt upgrades + their power weapons and dropped 2 of the multi meltas. Added in combi meltas on the tac sgts. And out death wind launchers on the stern guard pods. Thoughts? I'll post an updated list soon.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
OK, here's my second attempt:

2000 Pts - Codex: Space Marines Roster

Total Roster Cost: 2000

HQ: Vulkan He'stan (1#, 190 pts)
1 Vulkan He'stan (Warlord)

: Command Squad (6#, 210 pts)
4 Command Squad + Storm Shield x4 + Flamer x4 + Apothecary
1 Drop Pod

Elite: Sternguard Veteran Squad (11#, 325 pts)
9 Sternguard Veteran Squad + Combi-Meltagun x2 + Heavy Flamer x2
1 Veteran Sergeant + Melta Bombs + Power Sword
1 Drop Pod

Elite: Sternguard Veteran Squad (11#, 330 pts)
9 Sternguard Veteran Squad + Combi-Meltagun x2 + Heavy Flamer x2
1 Veteran Sergeant + Power Fist
1 Drop Pod

Elite: Sternguard Veteran Squad (11#, 330 pts)
9 Sternguard Veteran Squad + Combi-Meltagun x2 + Heavy Flamer x2
1 Veteran Sergeant + Power Fist
1 Drop Pod

Troops: Tactical Squad (11#, 205 pts)
9 Tactical Squad + Meltagun + Multi-melta
1 Sergeant + Combi-Meltagun
1 Drop Pod

Troops: Tactical Squad (11#, 205 pts)
9 Tactical Squad + Meltagun + Multi-melta
1 Sergeant + Combi-Meltagun
1 Drop Pod

Troops: Tactical Squad (11#, 205 pts)
9 Tactical Squad + Meltagun + Multi-melta
1 Sergeant + Combi-Meltagun
1 Drop Pod

barit wrote:

 Skabfang wrote:

With 7x Drop pods, that's 4x turn 2 pie plates, and by turn 3 it's 7! Say bye bye horde armies!

Probably because you cant shoot them first turn, dropping in is cruising speed, so only snap firing for you and you cant snap fire templates!

Trim and bold for emphasis that I had already said that..

If your enemy is focus firing your AV12 pillboxes on the first two turns, they aren't touching the rest of your army. They're only 50 pts and easily the best spend in the codex for what they give (don't scoff at multiple str5 pie plates).

I've only got three, and I've never had more than two destroyed within a game. Beside my Libby, these are MVP..

I also use them to drop in front of an enemies main lines, forcing a mobile force to be unable to advance straight to my lines. Gives at the least an extra turn of shooting.

barit wrote:
Added in with the poor range and extra expense it is easy to see why they are not included.

How is 12" range poor when you are dropping them right in the middle of their army? Remember, if you can place a pod between squads and there is no space for scatter.. they don't scatter (called inertial something in the codex iirc).

Granted, for an assault army that isn't staying there it's not as ideal because they will move away, but it's still a major threat to any army even a mobile one as you will be firing pies at their flanks (force wounds on almost any troops).

If you haven't tried it, you probably should before writing it off. If you have and it didn't work, then hell.. must be doing it wrong.

I drop them empty for extra crossfire lulz, Tau hate it!

ymmv

I like that stern guard list, I definitley take the deathwin have heavey infrantry this is great anti horde

Trouble is, I don't have the points to fit in deathwinds. I have the stormshields on the command squad, but I'm trying to keep them to keep the warlord alive!

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
Trouble is, I don't have the points to fit in deathwinds. I have the stormshields on the command squad, but I'm trying to keep them to keep the warlord alive!

Drop the vet sgt and powerfist/sword/melta-bomb upgrades and you've got more than enough points .. IF you're going to go with Deathwinds (I never do, but largely because once my pods drop I tend to forget about them).

You don't want your marines in combat anyway .. you want them shooting, so those PF's and PS's don't do them any good in that regard (and they'll probably be challenged out and killed before they can get to use the PF anyway).

Think I'd rather keep the power weapons then take deathwinds!

Ok, I'm actually going to go with a smurf list. Ultramarines with their chapter tactics. I know there isn't a lot of people who think it's a good idea, but I love the models, I like the colour scheme, and I actually think the tactical and devastator doctrines are pretty useful! I'll post a lid up in a bit. It's still a 7 pod drop pod list.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
OK, Here it is:

2000 Pts - Codex: Space Marines Roster

Total Roster Cost: 2000

HQ: Marneus Calgar (1#, 285 pts)
1 Marneus Calgar + Armour of Antilochus (Warlord)

HQ: Chief Librarian Tigurius (1#, 165 pts)
1 Chief Librarian Tigurius

: Honour Guard (5#, 170 pts)
1 Chapter Banner
1 Chapter Champion + Power Sword
1 Honour Guard + Power Sword
1 Honour Guard + Power Axe
1 Honour Guard + Power Axe
1 Drop Pod

Elite: Sternguard Veteran Squad (11#, 315 pts)
9 Sternguard Veteran Squad + Combi-Meltagun x2 + Meltagun x2
1 Veteran Sergeant + Combi-Meltagun
1 Drop Pod

Elite: Sternguard Veteran Squad (11#, 335 pts)
9 Sternguard Veteran Squad + Combi-Meltagun x2 + Meltagun x2
1 Veteran Sergeant + Melta Bombs + Power Sword + Combi-Meltagun
1 Drop Pod

Troops: Tactical Squad (11#, 195 pts)
9 Tactical Squad + Meltagun
1 Sergeant + Combi-Meltagun
1 Drop Pod

Troops: Tactical Squad (11#, 195 pts)
9 Tactical Squad + Meltagun
1 Sergeant + Combi-Meltagun
1 Drop Pod

Troops: Tactical Squad (11#, 195 pts)
9 Tactical Squad + Meltagun
1 Sergeant + Combi-Meltagun
1 Drop Pod

Heavy Support: Devastator Squad (6#, 145 pts)
4 Devastator Squad + Multi-melta x4
1 Sergeant
1 Drop Pod

OK so by reading this I come to the conclusion that you have not bought any models yet if this is so can I make a suggestion, SPACE WOLVES.

A Space Wolves drop pod list is still right up there, especially a Loganwing list. If you want sternguard Loganwing can do it better..... well almost but they can have 6 of them and you can change it up with power weapons, wolf claws (way better than lighting claws!) or just TDA a few and you have so much bang you can have your opponents bucks.

try Logan in a pod with 6 long fangs 5 multimeltas and a TDA wolf guard with combi melta (might be melta over kill) Wolf Claw and SS then for protection. Logan gives them relentless allowing them to fire 5 multimelta shots at two (OH GOD) yes two targets. My turn one always ends with oh well that was a nice set of vinidcators/maulerfiends/freadnaughts/landraiders/insert expensive vehicle here.

then the rest of your pods can have any combination of Wolf Guard, all in PA with combi weapons maybe a SS or two for saftey oh and a Power axe/fist and Wolf claw for well The Biff. or all in TDA one with TH/SS one with AC/WC others with combi plasma and assorted power weapons. Or my favorite of 4 in TDA one with TH/SS one with AC/WC others with combi plasma and assorted power weapons on two in PA with just combi plasma.

throw in a squad or two of Grey Hunters (probably the best troops choice out there) with plasma or melta

And for kick a dreadnought in pod, well that is a real Alpha strike.

Just my thoughts

I know wolves make an arguably better pod list, BUT I'm not a fan of their fluff, and I like to stick to fluff I like.

Dude. What color and scheme you paint your plastic soliders with is up to you.

Don't feel obliged to run your ultramarines as ultramarines. You can run them 'count as' spacewolves if you like.

I ran this army 'counts as' wolves for a few tourneys. Noone ever gave me flack for it in person.

I know your mind is pretty much made up, but I can't help but think that Marneus Calgar is a very high-point character? With the amount of melta in your list (which I completely agree with - you can never have too much melta) Salamanders and Vulkan seems like a better route to go down. Even just downgrading Calgar to a lower point model, a Captain or even Chapter Master, would save you a fair few points that could be put to good use elsewhere.