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How do mounts interact with strength multiplying weapons (Power fists, Thunderhammers, etc)?

The thunderwolf cavalry are listed as S5 on their sheet, but one has to assume that's with the built-in +1Strength from the mount.

When a weapon is listed as Sx2, are you multiplying the listed value or the base value? I've heard it argued that it should be the unmodified base value (4), thus having a total wound of S8, rather than S10.

If that's true though, I've never heard anyone argue that any of the S+X weapons should be argued from base strength. A frost axe gives S+2, but in my experience is that people will count total strength+2 (in this case, S7).

Is this all correct, and if so, anyone know the theory behind why it is inconsistent?

You double what is on the profile.

TWC are Str 5 on the profile so you double that as they are not Str4 with a +1 Str rule like Furious charge or a frost weapon.

 DeathReaper wrote:
You double what is on the profile.

TWC are Str 5 on the profile so you double that as they are not Str4 with a +1 Str rule like Furious charge or a frost weapon.

So just to confirm, Thunderwolf cavalry with a power fist is Str10 on the attack? (and their Hammer of Wrath is Str5?) as I've always heard it argued that both used the "unmodified" strength of the unit, and had people tell me that the +1Str from the mount built into the profile doesn't count.

 kazian wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
You double what is on the profile.

TWC are Str 5 on the profile so you double that as they are not Str4 with a +1 Str rule like Furious charge or a frost weapon.

So just to confirm, Thunderwolf cavalry with a power fist is Str10 on the attack? (and their Hammer of Wrath is Str5?) as I've always heard it argued that both used the "unmodified" strength of the unit, and had people tell me that the +1Str from the mount built into the profile doesn't count.

The Unmodified Str of TWC is 5.

Yes Str 10 with Powerfist/THammer and Str 5 HoW

The base Str of Thunderwolf Cav is listed at 5 on the profile, so I would use that for doubling purposes.

The Space Wolves FAQ also clarifies that the +1S bonus from the Thunderwolf mount is applied to the model's base characteristic.

Hold up a second then... not to derail the thread but to simply use this as a precedent... this could also be said for the striking scorpion exarch that is given +1 strength before the game starts as per the special provided, yet people are still arguing that he is strength 7 instead of strength 8... for example; a Wolf Lord on a TWM is strength 5, so if he has to perform a strength test, he passes on a 5 or less. If an exarch with the special that gives him plus one strength has to perform a strength test, it should be at a 4 or less by whats being said here, ERGO his power fist lets him hit at strength 8

This ins't the same as unlike the scorpion exarch ,the mount says it modifies base characteristics. "Both happen before the start of the game" doesn't matter .

Crushing Blow is worded differently than the TWmount.

The Mount very specifically alters the models profile(like a bike); Crushing Blow has no Such specific language and so can be argued as a simple modifier that always applies.

Crushing Blow HIWPI is as a Profile adjustment. It is an upgrade that you double the cost of the Exarch for and apply from unit creation, so i really feel it should be better than a simple Modifier.

 B0B MaRlEy wrote:
This ins't the same as unlike the scorpion exarch ,the mount says it modifies base characteristics.

And a model getting +1 strength isnt modifying the characteristic?

I mean the TW says the model gets +1 strength, +1 toughness, I think +1 attack and becomes cavalry... how is that not the same as a model getting +1 strength?

You pay for the thunderwolf, just like you would for the crushing blow, right?

there is absolutely no difference and IMHO would be cheating the eldar player if played any differently...

 WarlordRob117 wrote:

 B0B MaRlEy wrote:
This ins't the same as unlike the scorpion exarch ,the mount says it modifies base characteristics.

And a model getting +1 strength isnt modifying the characteristic?

I mean the TW says the model gets +1 strength, +1 toughness, I think +1 attack and becomes cavalry... how is that not the same as a model getting +1 strength?

You pay for the thunderwolf, just like you would for the crushing blow, right?

there is absolutely no difference and IMHO would be cheating the eldar player if played any differently...

Unless you can show me something saying it changes the model's stats it doesn't, as emphasized in the Space wolf FAQ stating "Unusually for such bonuses,it is a modification of the base characteristic..."

well... what is plus one strength?

it doesnt say only during the assault phase, nor any other phase... simply put, +1 strength, and you can use, even if you dont want to, the precedent that the faq about TW can hold true for the instance of crushing blow... The example given in the book happens during the assualt phase as a model a power fist cannot use 2x strength during tests can they? since that is a "no", then we also have to presume that the plus one strength that is used in the example is also coming from something like furious charge, which clearly states a model only gets the turn he charges...

thats pretty cut and dry to me... what I have a problem with is when people expect that there should be more after that sentence saying the model has plus one strength from crushing blow. They want to see a "the addition applies to the models base characteristic and thus applies for the whole game", when a simple, this model gets plus one strength is sufficient... simple matter of literalist vs. realist

If it helps don't think of it as +1 strength modifier. Think of it more like an alternate base strength that can be calculated by adding one to the normal base strength.

Warlord - except you dont get to use the "precedent" of the FAQ, because it points out in the FAQ itself that this is an *unusual* situation.

It was mainly to make it so a wolf lord riding a TWM wasnt less strong or tough in 5th than TWC. It just didnt make sense, in game, that your bad ass lord could hop on a mount but get IDd by a melta, whereas random joe mcMarine on TWC was happy with it.