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High Beastmaster(Lord of the Fleet) 100 points of gear, Manticore with Iron hide
Lokhir Fellheart
Sorceress lv1 Dispell scroll
Noble w BSB full gear

Corsairs x 29 FC additional combat wpn
Corsairs x 29 FC additional combat wpn
Corsairs x10 hand bows
Corsairs x10 Hand Bows
Dark Riders x 5 repeater x-bows

Shades x 5 great weapons
Bolt throwers x2
Hydra flame breath

Kharybdis
Kharybdis

I haven't figured out the gear yet for the Beastmaster and simply factored in the points for it. Might give the BSB a Razor Standard since they took away the Sea Serpeant standard. How does it look? Now I have to figure out a color scheme. Corsairs are beautiful models but I am such a perfectionist with color design and such, they are an absolute pain getting a scheme I like.

The thing about the Beastmaster, is if you're taking a manticore, a dreadlord is a better lord on manticore. Because you can get a 1+ save with mundane kit, so you get a 4+ ward and 55 points of magic weapons.

Another glaring issue with the list is that you have nothing to deal with Monstrous Cav. A single unit of mournfang or skullcrushers will ruin your army.

If you want to keep the black ark theme, you NEED a level 4 shadow.

Or you could drop the Hydra for 2 RBT
4 RBT do hurt MC a lot (and DPrinces, and big monsters, and heavy cav ... everything basically), plus it keeps the theme as RBT are a staple of Black Arks

Keeping away from the big wizards aside from the scroll caddy. Just don't have the points and I prefer big monstrous fighting characters to wizards, they look better. Plus thematically wizards do not fit the whole pirate lord image. I didn't even look at the dreadlord kit, tunnel visioned in on the beastlord. I will have a look when I get home.

Originally I had planned on four RBTs and dropped two to fit the hydra. Since I already own 3, it would be cheaper to just buy another one off ebay than a whole new hydra I guess and would give bonus points for magic items or buffing the sorc to a level 2.

Col. Dash wrote:
Keeping away from the big wizards aside from the scroll caddy. Just don't have the points and I prefer big monstrous fighting characters to wizards, they look better. Plus thematically wizards do not fit the whole pirate lord image. I didn't even look at the dreadlord kit, tunnel visioned in on the beastlord. I will have a look when I get home.

Originally I had planned on four RBTs and dropped two to fit the hydra. Since I already own 3, it would be cheaper to just buy another one off ebay than a whole new hydra I guess and would give bonus points for magic items or buffing the sorc to a level 2.

You may not like them, and they may not fit thematically, but the list CANNOT work without a level 4 shadow mage. The corsairs need mindrazor to fight, and you need a level 4 bonus for dispel purposes.

Four Bolt Throwers is a very good choice, and provides you with a reliable firebase.

I disagree with the sentiment that you NEED anything in your list. I get the impression from thedarkavenger's other posts that he games in a very competitive environment, so if that is your case then perhaps you will "need" a Lv4

For theme purposes, you could go with beast magic or even dark for the +1 strength spell.

I'd consider making room for a second Lv1 wizard and sticking one in each corsair block for wildform. Fits theme and +1 s and t never hurts in combat. Similarly, if you load up to lvl 2's or one lvl 4, beasts gets you amber spear and/or savage beasts to help deal with big threats.

You could also consider 1 lvl 1 on beasts and 1 lvl 1 on metal for the sig spells as well. Just some thoughts!

I agree with Pervert here (I love saying something like that ), you don't NEED a lvl 4 shadow
However it can help you a lot to have some added anti-armour capacity for your corsairs (razor banner, beasts, power of darkness ...), even though the Kharibdys are great at anti armour with S7, they're meant to kill tough/armoured targets
Right, Mindrazor is awesome, but you ain't guaranteed to have it, you often risk a miscast to get it, it has a one-turn duration and you will definitely win games without it, even in a competitive game

TanKoL wrote:
I agree with Pervert here (I love saying something like that ), you don't NEED a lvl 4 shadow
However it can help you a lot to have some added anti-armour capacity for your corsairs (razor banner, beasts, power of darkness ...), even though the Kharibdys are great at anti armour with S7, they're meant to kill tough/armoured targets
Right, Mindrazor is awesome, but you ain't guaranteed to have it, you often risk a miscast to get it, it has a one-turn duration and you will definitely win games without it, even in a competitive game

Shadow isn't just about Mindrazor. What if your corsairs face off against something like Crypt Horrors. At that point, you need shadow magic, or you lose combat. because your corsairs can't really hurt them. You have to remember, without the 5+ ward from the cauldron and the sea serpent standard, corsairs aren't the same. They aren't a push-it-forward-and-fight unit any more.


As for the Kharibdii(?), they can't be everywhere at once. Even if you add something like 10 Executioners to this list, it would help immensely. Just to run in, and make a unit of Monstrous Cav weak enough for your big units to finish off as, to make corsairs anywhere anti armour, you need two of the three things you suggested.

That's where shadow magic comes in again. With mindrazor, you kill off things like monstrous cav. I've often found myself casting it to dissuade my opponent from charging, or to pop his scroll. With withering, you don't affect the save, but you get a lot more wounds through, giving you more chance to get through the armour.


Whilst I do agree a level 1 metal can help with the anti armour issue, at this point he hasn't got enough tools in his army to get the maximum use out of it. Take Skullcrushers into consideration. Without Executioners or Mindrazor, they walk through Dark elf armies.

I like the Look and theme, but i think Lokhir is so expensive for what he does. Though i admit im still fairly new to this edition. I like the conviction on a "themed" army. But you should get a little more magic might on your side. A lvl 1 at 2400 is hardly enough.

Tsilber wrote:
I like the Look and theme, but i think Lokhir is so expensive for what he does. Though i admit im still fairly new to this edition. I like the conviction on a "themed" army. But you should get a little more magic might on your side. A lvl 1 at 2400 is hardly enough.

Lokhir is one of the winning characters in this book. A 2+ save, 4 WS6, ASF attacks which reroll all rolls to wound, 4+ Regen ,and you cannot hide characters from him in combat. All for 235 points. That is a bargain.

As thedarkavenger said
Morathi's good as well
I guess Malekith can be as well but he's expensive due to being a fighty character + a lvl 4
Hellebron is fragile but will wreck anything she comes in contact with, she just has to survive the step up attacks
the other ones are all very squishy and not cheap either

 thedarkavenger wrote:

Tsilber wrote:
I like the Look and theme, but i think Lokhir is so expensive for what he does. Though i admit im still fairly new to this edition. I like the conviction on a "themed" army. But you should get a little more magic might on your side. A lvl 1 at 2400 is hardly enough.

Lokhir is one of the winning characters in this book. A 2+ save, 4 WS6, ASF attacks which reroll all rolls to wound, 4+ Regen ,and you cannot hide characters from him in combat. All for 235 points. That is a bargain.

See shows how much i know, as i said still new to this edition. I thought when a character refuses a challenge and hides in the back, they are not "fighting in the combat". Since it goes to the back and does not attack that round. And since you cant elect a unit champion, chances are you send that lvl 4 wizzy or other squishy to the back.

Everything else is good about Lokhir yes, but his daring leap rule is truly key specially if he can hit models in the back rank refusing a challenge.

Thanks for clarification.

Tsilber wrote:

 thedarkavenger wrote:

Tsilber wrote:
I like the Look and theme, but i think Lokhir is so expensive for what he does. Though i admit im still fairly new to this edition. I like the conviction on a "themed" army. But you should get a little more magic might on your side. A lvl 1 at 2400 is hardly enough.

Lokhir is one of the winning characters in this book. A 2+ save, 4 WS6, ASF attacks which reroll all rolls to wound, 4+ Regen ,and you cannot hide characters from him in combat. All for 235 points. That is a bargain.

See shows how much i know, as i said still new to this edition. I thought when a character refuses a challenge and hides in the back, they are not "fighting in the combat". Since it goes to the back and does not attack that round. And since you cant elect a unit champion, chances are you send that lvl 4 wizzy or other squishy to the back.

Everything else is good about Lokhir yes, but his daring leap rule is truly key specially if he can hit models in the back rank refusing a challenge.

Thanks for clarification.

If a character's unit is in Base to Base, he is in combat, if he refuses a challenge, he can't fight, but he is part of it. It also works against Ogres when the level 4 is in the second rank.

Right on, again thanks for clarification man. Guess he is pretty boss for his price.

Not to get off topic of the original posters post, but what threatens him, is their anything that ignore his Regen and a look out sir roll, that would also ignore his 2+ save or modify it bad enough? Like a flaming str 6 str 7 attack? (i mean i know there are lots of things can hurt him, but anything that just takes away all of his escape routes/saves)

Either way i stand corrected on thinking hes to expensive. his Daring leap rule is pretty boss.

Tsilber wrote:
Right on, again thanks for clarification man. Guess he is pretty boss for his price.

Not to get off topic of the original posters post, but what threatens him, is their anything that ignore his Regen and a look out sir roll, that would also ignore his 2+ save or modify it bad enough? Like a flaming str 6 str 7 attack? (i mean i know there are lots of things can hurt him, but anything that just takes away all of his escape routes/saves)

Either way i stand corrected on thinking hes to expensive. his Daring leap rule is pretty boss.

The stuff that threatens him is stuff that breaks his unit around him and killing blow.

I don't think anyone is going to argue that shadow is not a good lore. A majority of the spells in shadow are useful for most armies and similarly useful against most opponents. I just point out that your assessment that he NEEDS shadow (mind razor specifically) or will lose is a huge overstatement.

Would it help? Maybe. Does the list need it? Nope.

I like the idea of small executioner units more than a lvl 4 actually. Still think two lvl 1s or maybe a lvl 2 and a lvl 1 is enough magic for a combat focused army.

Between 4 RBTs, a 10 man exec unit, and a lvl 1 with searing doom armor/monstrous cav is dealt with

Pervertdhermit wrote:
Between 4 RBTs, a 10 man exec unit, and a lvl 1 with searing doom armor/monstrous cav is dealt with

The only reliable thing you've listed there is the unit of executioners.

Last time I ran my 6 bolt throwers, none hit for the first 3 turns. And my searing doom kept on getting dispelled.

As for the level 1/2s, the list does not move fast enough for it. The reason the WoC DP/Chimera list works is because it flies. Without any of that in Dark Elves, you will be in combat by turn 3/4, which gives your opponent time to get into a position to take out your T3 elves.

Interesting that you sight dispelling as a complication for relying on magic... when you chiefly promote Mind Razor as the best solution. Magic is fickle and it is never going to be perfect.

Same goes for ballistic skill shooting and charge distances, to hit rolls, to wound rolls, armor saves, etc.

There's going to be some chance involved. If he triples down (executioners, searing doom, and 4 bolt throwers) he's got a decent chance of eliminating threats.

As for speed... he has the manticore, dark riders, and shades... but I will concede that he could do with more fast moving/ flying threats.

Pervertdhermit wrote:
Interesting that you sight dispelling as a complication for relying on magic... when you chiefly promote Mind Razor as the best solution. Magic is fickle and it is never going to be perfect.

Same goes for ballistic skill shooting and charge distances, to hit rolls, to wound rolls, armor saves, etc.

There's going to be some chance involved. If he triples down (executioners, searing doom, and 4 bolt throwers) he's got a decent chance of eliminating threats.

As for speed... he has the manticore, dark riders, and shades... but I will concede that he could do with more fast moving/ flying threats.

I said that Mindrazor, and lore of shadow is necessary in the list to max out the potential of corsairs. Sure, they reroll 1s to wound, but they're still S3 with 2 attacks apiece. That doesn't scare any skullcrushers or mournfang. It doesn't even scare plague drones. If the OP wants his corsair to fight the important stuff, he needs a way to get their armour to a 4+, or wound them on 2s. That means that he'll get enough wounds through to damage the unit. The latter method will only sneak through 1-3 wounds at a time though. However, a level 4 on shadow magic will allow for both those methods.

The BS shooting thing is true, but with enough Dark elf shooting, in conjunction with shadow magic, you can eliminate most threats before they get to you. With to hit rolls, you can maximise your efficiency with shadow magic. The same goes for to wound rolls and armour saves. It can also effect your opponents charge distances. Are you starting to see a theme here?

With executioners, searing doom and bolt throwers, he has a chance of holding up 1 unit for a turn with the execs. And the searing doom will be stopped as, without a level 4 shadow mage it is the only threat he has for MC, and a bolt thrower will probably miss twice, and roll a 3-4 for wounds, dealing two, which means it will take 4 bolt throwers to kill a single Skullcrusher or Mournfang. Which means bolt throwers can't really be called reliable.

You are basically deducing that your mindrazor will go off, but searing doom will always be dispelled, that your corsairs with buffs will make it near monstrous cav, while the bolt throwers will miss, and also that the only way to win games is to crash corsairs into monstrous cav or knights.

I suppose my point is that relying on magic as your win condition is flawed. Shadow is great, I see your "theme," but no one said that it wasn't. It can lower toughness, which is good, but does not affect armor outside of mindrazor.

Against your lv4 I am going to avoid corsairs when mindrazor'ed because my cav units are faster. I'll swing around and wreck your other units. If I engage and then you cast it you have to aim for IF or I am dispelling/scrolling it. At that point I can just aim for IF on searing doom as well.

Variety of tools is key in this game.

Pervertdhermit wrote:
You are basically deducing that your mindrazor will go off, but searing doom will always be dispelled, that your corsairs with buffs will make it near monstrous cav, while the bolt throwers will miss, and also that the only way to win games is to crash corsairs into monstrous cav or knights.

I suppose my point is that relying on magic as your win condition is flawed. Shadow is great, I see your "theme," but no one said that it wasn't. It can lower toughness, which is good, but does not affect armor outside of mindrazor.

Against your lv4 I am going to avoid corsairs when mindrazor'ed because my cav units are faster. I'll swing around and wreck your other units. If I engage and then you cast it you have to aim for IF or I am dispelling/scrolling it. At that point I can just aim for IF on searing doom as well.

Variety of tools is key in this game.

I never once said that mindrazor will go off whereas searing doom won't. I said that you need a level 4 shadow, simply because she'll provide you with the tools to deal with most threats. You're assuming that shadow do all about the mindrazor. When it isn't. Shadow is good because all the spells are good. Sure, Searing Doom deals with threats if you have more threatening spells in the list.