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Pretty much what it says there. Any sources for their appearance - if necrons were designed by the Necrontyr, then the necrontyr surely would have a similar skeletal structure to that of beings created by the Old Ones? Or were they designed by the C'tan?

I dont believe there are any official images of the Necrontyr (The original, fleshy race) before the C'tan tricked them into Biotransferrance, re-creating them as Necrons.
I can only speculate that the Necrons look very much like skeletal Necrontyr.

What he said.

We can conjecture that they were narrow-faced, long-jawed and long-limbed... but that is just based on how they look now. They might have been human-like, or reptilian, or avian or... well... we really don't know what a Necron with skin looked like.

So the necrontyr were some race that just, through evolution, had the same skeletal structure, head, face, four limbs, eyes and had fingers like Old Ones creations?

The structure of necrons is exactly the same as human skeletons. I thought that the Old Ones genetically engineered random indigenous species and "uplifted" them to fit their template-four limbs, head etc.

Is it a coincidence that the necrons are fitted on this same template?

Or is it just the template that evolution naturally falls to?

Or did the C'tan copy the Old Ones' creations?

They are generally humanoid... they are not identical to humans, however. Their skulls are narrower with very long jaws and chins, their arms are proportionally longer than a human's, and their legs seem proportionally slightly shorter, suggesting something of a skinny ape-like appearance.

Forward-facing eyes are found on most predatory species. This is as true of Tyranid as it is a tiger.

The Necrons had very limited interactions with the Old Ones (prior to the war), but what interactions they did have did not end positively. The Necrontyr were contemporaries of the Old Ones, already possessing a star-spanning empire and wondrous technology.

They were definitely not a species uplifted by the Old Ones. They would, in fact, be the tool by which the Old Ones would meet extinction.

The Necrontyr were a race apart from the Old ones completely in the dawn of history, where the Old Ones were psychic and long lived, the Necrontyr were short lived, and warlike, mastering the physical universe and SCIENCE.

They asked the Old Ones for help, to save them from their own mortality, Old Ones said no, Necrontyr went to WAR with the Old Ones over it, and lost.

Licking their wounds, the Necrontyr were approached by the C'tan, energy beings of immense power, who hate the Old Ones, and all things psychic, and ALSO offer eternal life....sorta...

The Necrontyr become the Necrons, gaining functional "immortality" for the bargin price of their souls, which are consumed by the C'tan to gain power and fill their insatiable appetites. And follow the C'tan to war against the Old Ones again, and practically render them extinct.

The Necrons then killed the C'tan, realizing they'd been duped.
The Necrons, then weaker, and unable to overcome the Old Ones' parting gift, the Eldar and Orks, went into their slumber, and Galactic Rule passed to the Eldar

Why aren't tyranids more similar to everyone else then, as races that have nothing to do with Old Ones seem to fit into this template (I'm not trying to still push the 'necrontyr were created by Old Ones'-just wondering). It seems like it is therefore the most effective template, and thats what tyranids are all about, right?

The Tyranids are kinda an oddball.
The Old ones created races roughly in their image, playing god because they could, and later, due to desperation during the War in Heaven.
The Tyranids evolved of their own accord, consuming everything in their path from other galaxies, where we assume, they have never met the old ones, or their creations.
They have begun assimilating the DNA of the races they've found in this Galaxy however (Hive Guard-Space Marines, Zoanthropes- Eldar) ect. but they don't assume their "form" per se, but take their traits, and tweak them to be mass produced, and highly effective.

Because the Tyranids come from another galaxy entirely. And many Tyranids *are* two-legged, two-armed with a single head and forward-facing eyes (like the hormagaunt, for example).

Every tyranid has 6 limbs including hormagaunts.

The Necrons were not designed by the Necrontyr - The Necrons ARE the Necrontyr.

Therefore, we can assume that the Necrontyr looked a bit like the Necrons. But with a bit more meat.

So basically, they looked a bit like humans.

Though the Triarch Praetorians do appear to have "tails"


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Psienesis wrote:
Because the Tyranids come from another galaxy entirely. And many Tyranids *are* two-legged, two-armed with a single head and forward-facing eyes (like the hormagaunt, for example).

Actually, every tyranid is hexapedal. Even the serpentine ones.

Tyranids were also NOT created by the Old Ones. They came from a completely different galaxy and followed a completely different path of evolution, and do not fit in with the Old Ones' MO (to nurture and protect lesser life forms and guide their evolution). Quite the opposite, actually.

Fair enough, the GW picture of the Horms doesn't really show off the little T-Rex arms very well (or at all, really).

Dang I wish we could see some art of what the Necrontyr looked like. I can just imagine an organic version of a Necron warrior . . . deep eye sockets, elongated faces and skinny physiques. All of them complete nihilists and totally hostile to all outsiders. Staring at you, imagining strangling the life from you as you stare into their glassy eyes . . .

Look at the Nightbringer and the Deceiver. Something like that.

The C'tan took on the shapes of the Necrontyr's old, half-forgotten gods. In many cultures on Earth, in modern times at least, we think of our Gods having humanoid forms; there's no reason to think the Necrontyr wouldn't have done the same. I did hear a theory that perhaps they were insectoid, but that wouldn't make sense given their new forms imo.

Scarey Nerd wrote:
Look at the Nightbringer and the Deceiver. Something like that.

The C'tan took on the shapes of the Necrontyr's old, half-forgotten gods. In many cultures on Earth, in modern times at least, we think of our Gods having humanoid forms; there's no reason to think the Necrontyr wouldn't have done the same. I did hear a theory that perhaps they were insectoid, but that wouldn't make sense given their new forms imo.

Yeah, that wouldn't make any sense. If they were insectoid, why would they take humanoid forms?

I think that the Necrontyr were identical to humans.

Back in 2011, when the Necrons were given their current background, Black Library published some books and shorties about the newcrons. In one of them (I don´t remember which one) a Cryptek is amazed by how much the humans resembled the Necrontyr race. I think it was hinted that either the humans are the Necrontyr recreated or a really good imitation of them. Given that this story was published right after the new Codex, I think it was supposed to be true. That would explain why the Necrons are so similar to humans concerning feelings and behavior.

I am not sure of the source, but it may be "Hammer and Anvil", by James Swallow. Sisters of battle against Necrons, 2011,... could anyone confirm it?

Another possibility is the Eldar race. They are the preferred subjects for biotransference experiments. Then again, Eldar and Human are quite similar.

To be honest, the 40k fluff is the most inconsistent I have ever seen in any game. Sure, some major themes but different aspects come and go and wax and wane depending upon who is writing the books at the time. The best bet is to usually just nod and smile because if your an old timer, your gonna end up arguing with the young'uns and if your a newcomer, your gonna end up arguing with te old codgers.
what I would do is discuss it amongst your personal gaming group ad try to come up with the "story" that most fits your needs and hope that down the road (if GW survives itself) the next generation doesn't argue with you.

I always imagined them to look like lizards. Or at least the Lizard from the Spider-man movie...

Judging by how they had to live underground to hide from their sun:


1) Pale skin
2) Calloused hands + feet
3) Big eyes
4) Thin, almost skeletal body
5) Large cranium (brain-holder) to allow the brainpower needed to make their technology.
6) Quite possibly mammalian.

Extreme nerd-cave syndrome...

 Selym wrote:
Judging by how they had to live underground to hide from their sun:


1) Pale skin
2) Calloused hands + feet
3) Big eyes
4) Thin, almost skeletal body
5) Large cranium (brain-holder) to allow the brainpower needed to make their technology.
6) Quite possibly mammalian.

Extreme nerd-cave syndrome...

In addition to this I also imagine them as having some sort of pronounced spine. A lot of Necron models emphasize their spines, and the more important the necron the bigger and more elongated it seems. Maybe large protruding vertebrae were a sign of beauty.

Found these images on the 'net. I kinda like the first one more as the Necrontyr were supposed to be cancer ridden messes and the first Necrontyr looks sickly and unwell.

I always imagined them as pinky skinned. lanky- obviously. with easily visible vertebrae - not so much as the necron- more like on a starved person or still born baby. and heads just like a necron, but with feathers like hair. I don't know why that last one.

 da001 wrote:
I think that the Necrontyr were identical to humans.

Back in 2011, when the Necrons were given their current background, Black Library published some books and shorties about the newcrons. In one of them (I don´t remember which one) a Cryptek is amazed by how much the humans resembled the Necrontyr race. I think it was hinted that either the humans are the Necrontyr recreated or a really good imitation of them. Given that this story was published right after the new Codex, I think it was supposed to be true. That would explain why the Necrons are so similar to humans concerning feelings and behavior.

I am not sure of the source, but it may be "Hammer and Anvil", by James Swallow. Sisters of battle against Necrons, 2011,... could anyone confirm it?

Another possibility is the Eldar race. They are the preferred subjects for biotransference experiments. Then again, Eldar and Human are quite similar.

Maybe not identical, but certainly VERY similar.

And, yes, it is in Hammer and Anvil, page 204.

Hammer and Anvil by James Swallow, pg 204 wrote:
"It is your kind that imitate true life" (Speaking to the Sisters of Battle)
"How it was you came to evolve. The answer still eludes"

Indicating that yes, the Necrontyr looked like us (or, more accurately, we look like them)

@Matt.Kingsley: thank you very much. I wasn´t sure.

For me this sort of answers the question. It also explain something really odd (Necrons acting and having emotions exactly as humans) and add a mistery. Sooooo we are an imitiation of the original Necrontyr? Perhaps even the same race? The descendands of some survivors? New bodys for them? I like misteries.

 da001 wrote:
@Matt.Kingsley: thank you very much. I wasn´t sure.

For me this sort of answers the question. It also explain something really odd (Necrons acting and having emotions exactly as humans) and add a mistery. Sooooo we are an imitiation of the original Necrontyr? Perhaps even the same race? The descendands of some survivors? New bodys for them? I like misteries.

My current theory has the motto "The Eldar Did It", so knock yourself out

 da001 wrote:
New bodies for them?

I've always figured that the human race will be the new bodies for the Necrontyr. They're numerous enough and seem to have the same basic shape. Maybe Illuminor Szeras will start breeding a stock. With bigger craniums, of course.

The added the Pariah gene didn't they?

... perhaps that's preparation for Mankind to become new bodies for them.

Mellow wrote:
The added the Pariah gene didn't they?

... perhaps that's preparation for Mankind to become new bodies for them.

However, that could be entirely retconned now that Pariahs don't exist any more.

@Scarey Nerd: I am in denial regarding that. A single Codex without a particular unit does not mean that the unit does no longer exist in the setting. Look at the graviton guns, they are from Rogue Trader. Like the Jokaero. The Pariah will not die as long as the fans remember them.

I hope they un-retcon them. They really fit in this "humanity as new bodies" theory. And they were dark, the Codex is brighter without them. Which is not good.

And one more thing: there is a picture of a pariah in the current codex. It is right before the Army List section, page 86 Spanish edition (perhaps 85 or 87 in others). Right before the Nightbringer.

 Hexyn wrote:
Why aren't tyranids more similar to everyone else then, as races that have nothing to do with Old Ones seem to fit into this template (I'm not trying to still push the 'necrontyr were created by Old Ones'-just wondering). It seems like it is therefore the most effective template, and thats what tyranids are all about, right?

yes and no. a bipedal form is likely the most efficant body shape for a tool using race. one that will develop from a animal into one that develops and uses tools.

Tyranids are a NOT tool making/using race. they may use biological tech that can put em on par. but their evolutionary path is totally differnt from the rest of 40k.

humans for example climb out of trees. use sticks and rocks, make better sticks and rocks, develop sticks and rocks into chain swords and boltguns, etc.

Tyranids just grow it all.