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Thoughts on him? can He be in a competitive list? I see a lot of uses for the invulnerable break shot.

Case1: Your opponent brought nothing with Av13 or above. Put your Vindicare somewhere in terrain, let him take some potshots, or maybe stick him behind an Aegis and enjoy your S9AP2 precision-shots. Don't expect him to earn his points back.

Case2: Your opponent brought AV13 or above. It's time for the TURBO-PENETRATOR! This guy has a high chance to mess up a Landraider that wasn't smart enough to hide in cover, not to shabby IMO. Make sure to remind your opponent that you brought a Vindicare, during deployment, and watch him struggle to hide his vehicles.

In both cases, the Vindicare only works when there are enough other threats on the board, since he's about as tough as wet tissues (personally I believe he's just an Eldar in disguise).

Vindicare eats tanks.

I find to use him properly you also need to have at least 1 piece of movable terrain that can protect his frail 2 wounds from death.

My perferd method is to toss him in cover, put a rhino in front.

1 - Rhino moves 6" out of the way
2- Vindicare snipes
3 - Rhino flat-outs back in front of the vindicare.

Repeat untill done.

or take a fortress use the krakstorm missiles, and enjoy your BS8 S8 AP3 large blast where YOU allocate the wounds AND they cannot be LOS'd via the faq. Sure its 400 points, but if you warlord kill first turn (and its pretty hard not to unless the warlord has T5 2+) its worth it.

Downside is the krakstorm missle on the fortress is always firing indirectly so BS 8 doesn't matter. Unless the target you are shooting at is standing on the missle silo it never has direct LOS to anything due to the weapon aiming straight into the sky.

The FOR is an expensive model to buy money wise. I don't see anything wrong with someone building their own. Then they could put it on a turret if they so desired couldn't they?

That would be considered modeling for advantage. If it has a model with set guidelines you can't change those guidelines. FOr example I couldn't pintle mount the side sponsons on my predators and land raider to make them have 360 vision.

I'm not saying that its something people should go out and do. I'm just saying that I think it would be within the letter of the rules. For example, the side sponsons aren't just put on the side, the rules actually give the fire arc. Likewise, the heavy bolter on a russ actually says it is hull mounted and the battle cannon on a russ is turret mounted. This makes them non-negotiable.
I've seen people make a home made bastion and put all four heavy bolters on the front. It says there are 4 on it but does not specifically say that you are limited to one to a side. That's just how thiers happens to be modeled.
I feel it is a grey area that can be exploited. The set guidelines says it is emplaced. It does not say "may only fire indirectly".

You can argue that the official model does not fire indirectly for that because it does not say "may only fire indirectly". My interpretation is that if a guy is standing there firing it, you fire directly if the guy standing there can see the target, indirectly if they cant. Might be a question for the rules gurus for this interpretation .

 EVIL INC wrote:
The FOR is an expensive model to buy money wise. I don't see anything wrong with someone building their own. Then they could put it on a turret if they so desired couldn't they?

Yeah, but then you're modeling for effect and that flies in the face of the Most Important Rule.

I mean, if we're doing that, then I'm going to make my FoR the biggest model on the board, put the missiles on a 360 turret on top of the fortress and then rain hell on everything for ever, indefinitely, unto perpetuity.

Honestly, that kind of play goes hand in hand with the clowns on the "ADL" thread earlier in the month. Particularly where guys were saying "3D ADL ANYONE?!" Bad players. :\

Edit: But about VINDICARE! lol

You who moves the Rhino back and forth for your Vindcare to shoot. I hate you.
You who are sniping my Helbrutes on turn 1. I hate you too.

lol. I've only had the great misfortune of fighting a Vindicare one time and he took the ruins in the middle of the board, that were the highest point on the map, and he was devestating. Not because he was laying out particularly heavy volumes of fire, but because he was so good at making those shots hit, making those shots kill and then making sure I couldn't get him.

In the above scenario, I was only able to dislodge him after throwing a blob of 20 cultists + Dark Apostle onto the 1st and 2nd landings, where he was on the 4th landing. My cultists were just barely able to shoot him with LOS and he couldn't see me (although in all reality the Vindicare could've looked down and pulled the trigger. lol).

I don't know about points cost and all that, but if I were faced with the choice to take or not, I would definitely take. Great for killing that one special thing you just have to have dead and don't want to commit 20 shots too killing. And doesn't he get a freaking armor save too? Like his body is made of rubber or something? ----- that guy. lol

This actually turns interesting when you consider models that are currently allowed to shoot through themselves. Take the stormraven. The top assault cannon cant aim downwards. However, everyone i have ever seen uses it that way.


Also, if your opponent objects to you firing directly, put the fortress on a hill or slope. The silo can now see targets.

It's very arguable on the missle, if there was a fire point you could say the dude is looking out of it, but as is It's LOS is the sky.

 zephoid wrote:
This actually turns interesting when you consider models that are currently allowed to shoot through themselves. Take the stormraven. The top assault cannon cant aim downwards. However, everyone i have ever seen uses it that way.


Also, if your opponent objects to you firing directly, put the fortress on a hill or slope. The silo can now see targets.

Fort first > then terrain. but still.

 zephoid wrote:
This actually turns interesting when you consider models that are currently allowed to shoot through themselves. Take the stormraven. The top assault cannon cant aim downwards. However, everyone i have ever seen uses it that way.


Also, if your opponent objects to you firing directly, put the fortress on a hill or slope. The silo can now see targets.

Screw that...deploying it sideways!

Um...
...earthquake!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

toocool61 wrote:
Thoughts on him? can He be in a competitive list? I see a lot of uses for the invulnerable break shot.

Don't ever underestimate the Vindcare's Shield Breaker Round...feel like getting rid of that Space Marine's eternal warrior 3+ invuln shield?...one shot...

...now I don't have books on me where I'm at (work) but would that get rid of the EW rule too?

 ductvader wrote:


Don't ever underestimate the Vindcare's Shield Breaker Round...feel like getting rid of that Space Marine's eternal warrior 3+ invuln shield?...one shot...

...now I don't have books on me where I'm at (work) but would that get rid of the EW rule too?

I wouldn't say it removes it at all. it just denys them taking the 3++ still a great idea with the number of 3++ EW runnin around. you also get rid of the 4++ which is great

Can't say I've ever seen anything but the turbo penetrator shot be terribly relevant in my experience.

The shield-breaker is nice, but keep in mind it only effects invulnerable saves granted by wargear, and even then your target has to have been close enough to your sniper in order to pull it off.

Chances are (since you cannot move and shoot the rifle) that is probably hardly ever going to happen.

Vehicles are pretty common, stuff with more than one wound that has a decent (wargear provided) invulnerable save? less so.

I like fielding Vindicares don't get me wrong, but their best use in my opinion is to make enemy vehicles pop like so many soap bubbles, you'll rarely make their points back with any other use.

Remember that if need be you can also use all of the ammo with his pistol as well in case you need to move.

In 5th Edition I walked him on the board from reserves and took out a stormraven that came too close.

 Desubot wrote:

 zephoid wrote:
This actually turns interesting when you consider models that are currently allowed to shoot through themselves. Take the stormraven. The top assault cannon cant aim downwards. However, everyone i have ever seen uses it that way.


Also, if your opponent objects to you firing directly, put the fortress on a hill or slope. The silo can now see targets.

Fort first > then terrain. but still.

But very few people play that way, and no tournament i have ever gone to has the players place terrain.

I'm thinking put him in a crusader squad and 3 cannon servitor squad. add in an inquisitor with liber so the squad has split fire, and use the shield breaks shot, or any of the shots to your delight.

toocool61 wrote:
I'm thinking put him in a crusader squad and 3 cannon servitor squad. add in an inquisitor with liber so the squad has split fire, and use the shield breaks shot, or any of the shots to your delight.

He's not an IC.

Turbo pen is insane against vehicles... I believe there is a dakka user that has recorded his Vindicare kills in his sig, including things like superheavies and a Warlord Titan...

Just play him the way we always have: in some ruins, distract them with more important things, have him tag vehicles, special weapons, pop off INV saves (in that order. Usually.), and he'll make his points.

I've seen people use him to snipe out enemy ICs with a T4 or less using an icaras lascannon.