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This is just for a bit of fun and would probably take a year to paint but;

Company Command Squad with Lord Castellan Creed

Infantry Platoon x3
Infantry Squad x4
Heavy Weapons Team with Lascannon x3

Infantry Platoon
Infantry Squad x4
Special Weapons Team with Melta Guns x3

Infantry Platoon x2
Infantry Squad x4
Special Weapons Team with Sniper Riffles x3

Each infantry squad will protect it's Heavy/Special weapons team. Lord Creed will try to stay with 24'' of the HWT.

I know it's a slow army but can most armies deal with nearly 300 guard all on foot, is it a waste of time even thinking about it or should I start building?

Pretty much a waste of time, unfortunately. For the record, if you have the slots for special/heavy weapons in your infantry squads it is usually worth it to use those slots before resorting to special weapon squads or heavy weapon squads. The most 'protecting' that naked infantry squads can do for your special weapon squads is giving them a cover save, rather than the huge number of ablative wounds an infantry blob would provide to your special weapon users.

I was going to make each infantry squad one unit for the purposes of issuing commands, which means I need my special weapons to be separate for targeting, I don't want to waste 120 str 3 lasgun shots on mech just because that unit contains my lascannon.

So is the idea of lots of infantry and no mech a no goer?

Allot of armies would have difficulty dealing with that many troops as you say but equally you will find it quite difficult winning games.

I would suggest that you wouldn'y have too much fun playing.

I go with a hybrid force at 1500 so about 60-70 guardsmen and a ton of tanks and do well enough. With another 500 points you could take that anyway you want but too many troops (and I always blob) just becomes a pain in the arse.

rhysgm wrote:
I was going to make each infantry squad one unit for the purposes of issuing commands, which means I need my special weapons to be separate for targeting, I don't want to waste 120 str 3 lasgun shots on mech just because that unit contains my lascannon.

So is the idea of lots of infantry and no mech a no goer?

That's the sacrifice we often have to make in the IG. If you've naught but a single melta SWS and Lascannon HWS for vehicle killing at 2000 points, you can pretty much guarantee that those two squads will be dead on the first turn. You might get lasgun inefficiency, but the trade-off is having your non-lasgun soldiers live long enough to kill something.

But yeah all-in-all something that is purely IG infantry at such high points levels is going to fall flat unless you really know what you are doing.

How are about;

1900 points
CCS
4x PCS
4x 50 man Infantry Squads
4x HWT with lascannons x3 in a Chimera

Sacrifice infantry to have 12 Lascannons in Chirmera's

or

1740 points
CCS
5x PCS
5x 50 man infantry Squads with 2 Lascannons

Sacrifice separate targeting by having 10 Lascannons within infantry squads.

I'm sure you'd feel like a proper General, moving that many troops around and issuing loads of orders per turn. Or should I stick to competitive balanced armies.

It just isn't going to work. 10 or 12 lascannons as the only non-lasguns in your whole list simply isn't going to be enough to deal with the variety of threats you'll face. Like I said before you really need to know what you're doing to try and pull something like this off. If you have to ask a random person on a forum, you don't know what you're doing well enough.

Ok, fine, I'll concede until I've played at least one battle.

My first IG list was/is a tank list, I ordered it from Totalwargamer a month ago, so hopefully I'll get it before Easter. It has 3 Leman Russ', a Manticore, Hellhound and 4 Chimera's. No troops yet.

So what do you think is the best use of my Chimera's for a balanced tank and infantry list, I know vets are popular and probably the best choice but it's not very fluffy, infantry platoons are. So should I go for 3 platoons with CCS and PCS in the chimera's. I see little use for them to transport infantry, so it's either , Command Squads, HWT or SWT. Maybe SWT with meltas? And I could give each infantry squad a heavy weapon

Edit:

Talore, I notice Master of Ordnance in your 500 pt list, is he any good, his rules make him quite inaccurate? And if CCS is on foot do you recommend bodyguards for larger lists?

Mech vets are very fluffy, but they're just a different kind of IG army than a foot horde. They really are the best use for your chimeras. If you don't want mechvets, you could try using Chimeras for all your command squads as mobile pillboxes to shout orders from. Try giving them a bunch of special weapons like flamers (PCS) or meltas/plasma (CCS).

For weapons like meltaguns and plasma guns, you really want them to be on BS4 models if you can help it. That's why veterans and company command squads are regarded as the best chassis for them, as opposed to a vulnerable and more inaccurate special weapon squad.

MoO is... very hit or miss. I'm having fun with him right now but I wouldn't exactly recommend him. Bodyguards in general are not really points well spent, they're expensive and don't add much to what you want to be doing. Just hide your CCS as much as possible rather than relying on two more guardsmen for protection.

Again, lurk around and see what other people are doing with their lists

What about sweeping advances? Boom. 50 guys dead at the sight of 10 wyches.

 Cadichan Support wrote:
What about sweeping advances? Boom. 50 guys dead at the sight of 10 wyches.

You'd always have commissars in your blob at this leve. Maybe even a magic flag in the command squad. Stubborn blobs are the only way to go.

What about a siege guard army?
Agies defence line with quad gun, like 3 russes with bolters,
some mesdusa siege guns for anti meq and maybe even hydras for anti flyers, then just fill out the rest with vets with camo cloaks and auto cannons. For Hq take creed and a psyker.

Talore wrote:Mech vets are very fluffy, but they're just a different kind of IG army than a foot horde.

No disrespect but I disagree, I don't think more vets than standard infantry would ever occur in a large IG battle group. There are billions of expendable men and very few would ever make it to a vet or better.

Talore wrote:you could try using Chimeras for all your command squads as mobile pillboxes to shout orders from. Try giving them a bunch of special weapons like flamers (PCS) or meltas/plasma (CCS).

Ok, Pillboxes and maybe one or two mechvet with a large infantry blob

Talore wrote:MoO is... very hit or miss. I'm having fun with him right now but I wouldn't exactly recommend him. Bodyguards in general are not really points well spent, they're expensive and don't add much to what you want to be doing. Just hide your CCS as much as possible rather than relying on two more guardsmen for protection.

I'll leave them out for now.

Arbiter wrote:What about a siege guard army?
Agies defence line with quad gun, like 3 russes with bolters,
some mesdusa siege guns for anti meq and maybe even hydras for anti flyers, then just fill out the rest with vets with camo cloaks and auto cannons. For Hq take creed and a psyker.

My tanks have already been decided, 3 russes, manticore, hellhound, 4 Chimeras. I was going for a tank heavy army and an infantry heavy army. From everyone's advice I'll probably stick to large combined mech/infantry list that I can scale down for smaller battles.

In any heavy infantry list I woould suggest a Lord commissar and also make sure your CCS has a regimental standard or your squads will fall back to the smallest fire power. If your using creed, I suggest kell so all orders issued are passed on creeds leadership.

If your running a mechanized army vets are the best route, x3 plasma or x3 melta. If you try to run standard infantry squads in chimeras you will realize it wont work. 1 infantry squad with a special weapon in a chimera just does not put out a good amount of fire power. Even if you have 2 infantry squads in chimeras over a mech vet squad I would still go with the mech vets because they provide much more fire power with more special weapons and having a more reliable ballistic skill. Your standard guardsmen will most likely miss or kill themselves before they hit with a plasma gun where vets love their plasma.

 tankboy145 wrote:
Your standard guardsmen will most likely miss or kill themselves before they hit with a plasma gun where vets love their plasma.

Is there some special rule I've missed that makes Vets not role 1's?



If I'm going for a more balanced mech/infantry list, then how about for 1980 points;

PCS - Creed, Vox-caster, 3x Meltas, Chimera

CCS - Vox-caster, 3x Flamers, Commissar, Chimera

50 man Infantry Squad - Vox-caster

CCS - Vox-caster, 3x Flamers, Commissar, Chimera

50 man Infantry Squad - Vox-caster

Vet Squad - Vox-caster, 3x Melta, Chimera

Devil Dog

Manticore

LRBT x2

Leman Russ 190 point multiple plasma blast one (I can't remember it's name)

I'm thinking failure rate with Vox' are better than Kell if I issue more commands to infantry, but if I take them out I have 50 points spare, not sure how much Kell is though, so I could probably go either way on that one.

PCS and vets in Chimeras with meltas utilising their BS4. And CCS with flamers in the other 2 Chrimeras.

I can't remember Lord Commissar's special rules, however I did dismiss him on first look but I'll read again once I'm in front of my codex.

No upgrades to infantry in terms of weapons, just large blobs of men. Even S3 shots kill when you're firing 150 of them. Against MEQ, 75 hit, 25 wound, 8 failed saves. They should pay for themselves in 2 or 3 turns of firing.

Is this a better setup? Tanks already order and on way so I can't change them, apart from the Russes variations. I can then scale down to smaller games.

PCS's are for platoons. Creed can only be taken in a CCS.

If you take kell with creed Vox casters would be pointless.

Also blobs are useless unless you have a commissar in them. Now that codex inquisition is out you SHOULD have an inquisitor in your blob. You can even proxy your commissar as an inquisitor. Theres really no reason not to take an inquisitor if running blobs.

Also vets can roll 1's but they also hit on 3's and not 4's like standard guardsmen. Meaning the vets will hit more than standard guardsmen. Would you rather have a guardsmen that hits often and dies to over heat or a guardsmen that only hits half the time and dies to overheat???

Also commissars are only useful in blobs of infantry squads attaching them to CCS or PCS is just wasteful. They grant stubborn to whatever they are attached to and since they are LD9-10 they will rarely fail and if they do they kill the next highest LD model and they can reroll the LD test. Meaning they almost never fail. So why put that in a 5 man squad that will most likely get shot up and die or die in assault before they even swing??? doesnt work. Throw him in with a blob and now that blob wont be running away.

Lord Commissars arent bad right now as they grant a LD 10 and stubborn bubble, but like I said inquisitors are much better for blobs.

If you have a lot of HWS you should probably have a Lord Commissar so he can grant them stubborn and LD 10 if they are within 6"

Also your blobs should really either be tooled for close combat or shooting. Add autocannons or lascannons to the blobs for shooty and maybe some melta guns or plasma guns.

For assault power axes and melta bombs on the sergeants maybe add some melta guns or flamers for some assault weapons.

Also Creed with kell means that all orders creed gives out uses his LD of 10 since the average dice roll is 7 you should almost never fail a LD test. Vox caster also take up a special or heavy weapon slot in your CCS and PCS.

Hope this helps

 tankboy145 wrote:
PCS's are for platoons. Creed can only be taken in a CCS.

If you take kell with creed Vox casters would be pointless.

Also blobs are useless unless you have a commissar in them. Now that codex inquisition is out you SHOULD have an inquisitor in your blob. You can even proxy your commissar as an inquisitor. Theres really no reason not to take an inquisitor if running blobs.

My bad, I got my CCS and PCS the wrong way round.

I think Vox-casters are much better value then Kell, so I'll stick with them, Kell is quite expensive for that one extra rule, considering he'll be stuck in a Chimera and not able to do anything else.

Surely I can't just take two Inquisitors? Will I not need to take some Inquisitor troops, assuming the inquisitor is a HQ?

 tankboy145 wrote:
Also vets can roll 1's but they also hit on 3's and not 4's like standard guardsmen. Meaning the vets will hit more than standard guardsmen. Would you rather have a guardsmen that hits often and dies to over heat or a guardsmen that only hits half the time and dies to overheat???

So Vet's don't love their plasma then

Vox's are pants, don't waste your time with them.

Blobs want commissars with power axes, Sargents with power axes and melts bombs and as many melta guns as you can shoehorn in.

The bodies and Commisar make them a resilient unit but they need teeth or huge swaths of your force have limited potential uses.

I would argue for a MoO. It's not allot of points for a S9 pie plate. It's inaccurate but at 2000 points there will be lots of spread out units to target so go for it. What's the worst that can happen? So what if it lands on your Guardsmen, they're there to die so others can succeed. It's actually very fluffy!

 notprop wrote:
Vox's are pants, don't waste your time with them.

Blobs want commissars with power axes, Sargents with power axes and melts bombs and as many melta guns as you can shoehorn in.

The bodies and Commisar make them a resilient unit but they need teeth or huge swaths of your force have limited potential uses.

I would argue for a MoO. It's not allot of points for a S9 pie plate. It's inaccurate but at 2000 points there will be lots of spread out units to target so go for it. What's the worst that can happen? So what if it lands on your Guardsmen, they're there to die so others can succeed. It's actually very fluffy!

No blobs want inquisitors now. I just play tested an IG army with two blobs of 40 dudes, 1 with 4 autocannons and the other with 4 lascannons. For 79 points you get an inquisitor that can cast prescience(twinlinks a units shots) has rad grenades which lower an enemy units toughness by 1(my guardsmen were wounding termagaunts on 3's ) but that for 1st round of combat, but if anything joins the combat after that or the guard are assaulted they get the bonus again. and then! theres 3 servo skulls which reduce the scatter of your blast weapons by 1d6. so you fire a battle cannon or manticore missile at something within 12" of a servo skull and you only scatter 1d6(making your stuff very accurate) then it also denies your opponent scouting moves within 12" of them so basically theres no crazy turn 1 shenanigans of assaulting your IG and you auto losing!

And to answer your question for inquisitorial allies their FOC is 1-2 HQ's and 0-3 elites. So as you see you could take 2 inquisitors and nothing else!!!!! no troop tax!!!!! why wouldnt you add all that craziness to a blob???? if you dont want all that extra stuff like servo skulls or grenades then just take the inquisitor with prescience at 55pts and twinlink his units.

Inquisitors sound cool, can I take orders on their leadership?

I think I would want all my heavy/special weapons on tanks and vets. So how about two blobs of 40/50 guardsmen, I think for that many Guard a medic might be handy. With the 55 point Inquisitor and also a Vox-caster, guard are special for a few things, one of which is there orders; ie 1st rank, 2nd rank gives and extra 50 shots and for 10 points extra I can get vox-casters that ensure that order is carried out 97% of time rather than 83% of the time. Or 99.3% of the time on the Inquisitors Ld.

So 50 Guard, firing 3 twin linked shots each, with FnP. I don't really want them in CC I just want them to shoot at stuff, they'll take out a full 10 man MEQ in one turn, with a couple wounds left over. In close combat I'm barely doing 6 wounds. All for 340 points.

I do take the point on MoO, so I'll add him in to the CCS.

What are you going to do about flyers?

Shoot at them with my LRBTs? I was thinking I could sub in a 2 hydras for one of the Russes

EDIT:

I've just spotted something;

Am I right that Officers can not issue orders to tanks?

And Bastonne can not issue an order to his own vet squad if they are in a Chimera?

(Responding to the OP here)
Make room for some double melta stormtroopers in valkyre's. Don't rage at me Stormtroopers always work for me and they are highly underrated.

rhysgm wrote:
Inquisitors sound cool, can I take orders on their leadership?

I think I would want all my heavy/special weapons on tanks and vets. So how about two blobs of 40/50 guardsmen, I think for that many Guard a medic might be handy. With the 55 point Inquisitor and also a Vox-caster, guard are special for a few things, one of which is there orders; ie 1st rank, 2nd rank gives and extra 50 shots and for 10 points extra I can get vox-casters that ensure that order is carried out 97% of time rather than 83% of the time. Or 99.3% of the time on the Inquisitors Ld.

So 50 Guard, firing 3 twin linked shots each, with FnP. I don't really want them in CC I just want them to shoot at stuff, they'll take out a full 10 man MEQ in one turn, with a couple wounds left over. In close combat I'm barely doing 6 wounds. All for 340 points.

I do take the point on MoO, so I'll add him in to the CCS.

Well for one the medic can only be taken in the PCS or the CCS and neither can join the blob. Blobs can only be made of platoon infantry squads.

If you plan on having the blob be shooty I would add a heavy weapon team to each infantry squad.

And if I recall correctly in the FAQ you are NOT allowed to take orders on an allied characters LD. If you wanted better LD you would need to add a commissar but Im pretty sure the vox's would be fine. I personally am not a fan of vox casters as they take up a special weapon slot in the PCS or the CCS.

I'm going to start from the beginning. The two unique things about guard that I wanted to exploit are;

Big tanks with big guns, using barrage rules and long range and multiple large blasts

Large squads of infantry with officers giving orders, putting out huge amounts of bullets, according to my mathammer I'm dealing twice as many wounds per point over MEQ.

Am I over estimating the value of either of these rules?

Again using my mathammer on TEQ, MEQ, AV11 and AV14, a Manticore has the best cost per kill/hull point. followed by demolisher/executioner Leman Russ' depending on their task. And the LRBT is the next best all rounder. Devil Dog is also very efficient and gives me an extra tank from FA.

No point taking sponsons, and may take heavy flamers for better snap firing.

This comes to about just over 800 points. So it's the infantry I can spend 1,000 points on plus upgrades. I'm starting to agree that the only real solution being Mechvets, which I wanted to stay away from.

My problem is I like Creed; 4 within orders 24''. But if my whole army are in Chimeras then the orders are wasted. If I split up an Infantry squad I don't get the benefit of a large unit, especially if I want to put an Inquisitor in there.

What to do!