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Now years ago i tried out LizardMen, played like 2 games then never really stayed. So i have played roughly 3 games of warhammer in my many years. My friend has been trying for oh so long to get me to play it as there arent too many players. I found this: http://store.warlordgames.com/collections/thirty-years-war-1618-1648/products/pike-shotte-starter-battalia

Now i love pikes, and i love muskets SO THIS BOX IS PERFECT. So im gonna buy 2 cannon that fit this theme and make a gunline army backed by artillery and a large unit of spear/pike men. I have my first game in 2 days at 100pts. My friend has made a list that suits my theme. But i have a few questions:

How useful are cannon overall? I have been told they are a powerfull unit
Shall i bother with a mortar at all?
And the organ gun thingy, is that worth investing in?
I plan on having heaps of smaller shooty units (armed with handguns). How effective are shooty lists that focus on defence?
In a larger game i wanna try use the detatchments and maybe put small melee units with my shooty units, is it worth doing this?
I enjoy magic too so i hope to use that level 4 wizard, best way to hope to use him in a shooty way?

I know nothing about warhammer fantasy but i was told engineers are pretty decent for cannon.

In short i know very little about warhammer, i dont much care for the fluff but theme is very imprtant to me, so blackpowder being the theme what would you advise and have you had any luck with them?

Oh and of course, the steam tank. Is it expensive eye candy or a killer?

I don't play empire but I've got experience playing against them so I'll give this a go.

 Swastakowey wrote:
How useful are cannon overall? I have been told they are a powerfull unit

A single cannon will ruin someone's day if they brought a character on any sort of mount that isn't part of a unit. There is a reason the meta is dragon-lite at the moment.

 Swastakowey wrote:
Shall i bother with a mortar at all?

Mortars are the opposite of cannons here and therefore compliment them well. A cannon will end a single, big, tough target where a mortar can kill 10-20 line infantry.

 Swastakowey wrote:
And the organ gun thingy, is that worth investing in?

Personally I don't mind seeing my opponent set up a couple across from me as they aren't as reliable as other warmachines but they definitely have their place in a gunline list as an in-between, they hit more than a cannon but kill what they hit better than a mortar.

 Swastakowey wrote:
I plan on having heaps of smaller shooty units (armed with handguns). How effective are shooty lists that focus on defence?

Shooting in general is not amazing but an Empire gunline can do ok, just don't make the mistake of having NO combat units. Generally multiple units of 10 handgunners should do alright though.

 Swastakowey wrote:
In a larger game i wanna try use the detatchments and maybe put small melee units with my shooty units, is it worth doing this?

My understanding is a pair of 10 man handgunner units as detachments are great with a unit of 40 halberds/spears since your detachments can stand and fire (overwatch but at full BS an modifiers) at something charging the parent unit.

 Swastakowey wrote:
I enjoy magic too so i hope to use that level 4 wizard, best way to hope to use him in a shooty way?

This can cirtanly be done, a fire wizard can do a lot of damaging spells and there are other lores like heavens and light that can be more all round but still have a decent amount of shooting.

 Swastakowey wrote:
I know nothing about warhammer fantasy but i was told engineers are pretty decent for cannon.

Anything that makes your warmachines in a list like what you want is worth their weight in gold.

 Swastakowey wrote:
In short i know very little about warhammer, i dont much care for the fluff but theme is very imprtant to me, so blackpowder being the theme what would you advise and have you had any luck with them?

Blackpowder theme is one of the classic Empire themes, it can be done and done well but the one thing you've missed is outriders. Those guys are a pain to go up against and they have pistols so they fit the theme.

 Swastakowey wrote:
Oh and of course, the steam tank. Is it expensive eye candy or a killer?

There are a couple of magic related hard counters to this beast but for the most part your opponent will lack any kind of meaningful counter, they provide a great amount of threat and can do close combat surprisingly well, which is something you need.

Ok wow so thats really helpful thanks!

Well the set im buying has cavalry in it so outriders are definitely an option for me. So with the detachments im better to put them with the spearmen? my list just has lots of 10 man hand-gunner teams so really its just arranging my force into something fun and effective.

But it looks like ive got most of my options covered.

That was pretty helpful

Have you considered just playing Pike and Shotte? Its recommended by historical players around here

Have you had any experience with the game? I would love to but i not sure how well it will fly off in my group.

 Swastakowey wrote:


How useful are cannon overall? I have been told they are a powerfull unit

Cannons make people cry. However, they can and they WILL fail you at times. They´re relatively cheap though, so be sure they´re never the only trick up your sleeve.

Shall i bother with a mortar at all?

Not really. S2 is not good. You might try a combo with a shadow mage to debuff your opponents toughness, but that´s a lot of points for a very dicey prospect.

And the organ gun thingy, is that worth investing in?

The Hellblaster, supported by an engineer, is made out of pure murder. Yes, sometimes it will fail to do much of anything, but more often then not it will make your opponent consider rage-quitting on the spot.

I plan on having heaps of smaller shooty units (armed with handguns). How effective are shooty lists that focus on defence?
In a larger game i wanna try use the detatchments and maybe put small melee units with my shooty units, is it worth doing this?

Sadly, Handgunners are very much underpowered right now. There are people who make BS-shooting work, and there are people who make the MSU-approach work, but it´s an uphill-battle at best.

I enjoy magic too so i hope to use that level 4 wizard, best way to hope to use him in a shooty way?

Heavens is a good Lore to complement your shooting (Harmonic Convergence). Multiple Light wizards are popular (Banishment). Metal is surprisingly good. Death for sniping characters. Fire is kind of meh IMO, but even that lore can work. Best to try them out and see what you like.

I know nothing about warhammer fantasy but i was told engineers are pretty decent for cannon.

They´re not really worth the points with a Cannon (maybe if you run three), but they´re basically required for the Hellblaster.

In short i know very little about warhammer, i dont much care for the fluff but theme is very imprtant to me, so blackpowder being the theme what would you advise and have you had any luck with them?

Blackpowder is what the Empire is built on! No Empire army should be without some in it, IMO.

Oh and of course, the steam tank. Is it expensive eye candy or a killer?

The STank is very, very frustrating for a lot of opponents, especially in smaller games as they´re unable to handle it. Be careful with it if you value your opponents friendship (outside of torunaments, oc). Also, never, ever, go for 4 dice on the Steam Engine with it. Trust me, nothing feels worth then blowing your expensive centerpiece up so it could move +d6" this turn...

Had my game with them, my wood elf friend went easy on me and i wiped him out BUT next time he will bring his tourny list so we will see. The cannon, did great for the first shot then missed all the rest, muskets where ok, my pike/spearmen did a fair amount of damage and my comet of casandra did a heck lot of damage.

My general tactic was to use the comet and canon to force his longer ranged units towards me while my pikemen held of his melee units. but i learnt a lot and already am making changes. Thanks for the help guys.