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Hey ya'll

So I want to spice up my games a little bit and the plan is to do that by making my guard go a little traitor... the theme is they've been tricked by tzeentch into serving him etc.

So I'm thinking for a 1500 point game I'd have aprox. 1000 points of guard and about 500 points of chaos.

For the chaos I'm thinking of keeping it pretty minimal, a sorcerer, squad of 1k sons, and maybe 2 squads of 10 cultists (I can get tons of cheap bodies with guard anyway- sidenote should I keep the cultists as close combat or give them autoguns)?

The plan is to hope to get boon of mutation and mutate the heck out of the cultist champions (don't really care if that's a good tactic, I just like the idea.. and hey I might get a demon prince)

However I have a question: what type of sorcerer to take? I was thinking either a ML3 sorcerer with MoT, spell familiar, and terminator armor for 165 or maybe go full Ahriman for 230 points.

What do you think? Thoughts/ recommendations? Keep in mind this will be supporting a primarily foot guard army with some tank/ artillery support (no air units- don't have 'em, don't want 'em)

I'm also not trying for tournament level competitiveness.

Thanks!

Ahriman is certainly the superior sorcerer, especially if you want to sink him in a group of Thousand Sons or Tzeentch Cultists. That said, I like the regular Sorcerer for cost and for a couple other things.

Ahriman gets 4 Warp Charges giving you an unprecedented amount of firepower to throw down range as well as a 3+ Deny the Witch should some unlucky fellow attempt to hit you with your own powers. Most will like to hone in on the fact that Ahriman can dish out 4 Witchfires in a shooting phase, however I'd rather point out that most people use psykers for their buffs and maledictions. So don't get hung up too much on using all that shooting.

That said, Ahriman can't be upgraded and that REAALLY sucks. Especially when you consider that he's only pulling a 4+ invulnerable and a Sorcerer can get a 3+ invuln.

But more to the point, here are the things I put on my Tzeentch Sorcerer.

Burning Brand of Skalathrax.
Mark of Tzeentch.
Disc of Tzeentch.
Spell Familiar
Sigil of Corruption.

I believe those are the big 5. (Psyker lvl 3 too, but that's a default for me).

At lvl 3 you're wanting to roll a Witchfire, a Blessing and a Malediction on the abilities, however because you have to roll on Tzeentch, you'll want to try to get your Witchfire there. I recommend aiming for Doombolt if you can, since the BBoS gives you great Infantry Killing while the Doombolt can be used against vehicles. So you can alternate what you want to shoot at that point, depending on what you are targeting.

The Disc gives you Jetbike, which also confers a +1 Toughness to your Sorcerer (so there is an added Mark of Nurgle effect there, without paying for the mark) as well as getting 12" move wherever you need to be.

This guy has kind of turned into my Chaos equivalent of the Vindicare Assassin.

I'm told you can stick this guy in Bikers and Spawn squads, but since I have neither, he runs around by himself and is damned good at it too. Wherever I need support, he's there to lend just the right hand at just the right time.

Don't worry about getting a Demon Prince with Boon of Mutation because you won't see that happening any time soon.

Ahriman as an allied HQ is a waste because you're paying for the ability to unlock Tsons as Troops in a primary detachment, and his witchfire abilities (which should be a factor when deciding whether or not to include him) are worse than IG shooting. You are also paying for Ahriman's auto-Master of Deception which can't even be used if he's not the Warlord. 230pts wasted, especially if he's just going to sit in a unit (paying for 12" range or less Witchfires and likely never using all 3)

Go with an unmarked Level 2 with Spell Familiar, but remember that you aren't battle brothers with IG so the best powers (Invis, Endurance) won't work on your blobs or vehicles. Don't run a Level 3 because he will end up with more Witchfires than he can use.

In the end, only ally with Codex: CSM if you want a Heldrake.

Oh you know I actually hadn't considered I wouldn't be able to use those powers on my IG.

With that in mind, what do you think the best powers would be to roll for? Thanks

 TheRedWingArmada wrote:
Ahriman is certainly the superior sorcerer, especially if you want to sink him in a group of Thousand Sons or Tzeentch Cultists. That said, I like the regular Sorcerer for cost and for a couple other things.

Ahriman gets 4 Warp Charges giving you an unprecedented amount of firepower to throw down range as well as a 3+ Deny the Witch should some unlucky fellow attempt to hit you with your own powers. Most will like to hone in on the fact that Ahriman can dish out 4 Witchfires in a shooting phase, however I'd rather point out that most people use psykers for their buffs and maledictions. So don't get hung up too much on using all that shooting.

That said, Ahriman can't be upgraded and that REAALLY sucks. Especially when you consider that he's only pulling a 4+ invulnerable and a Sorcerer can get a 3+ invuln.

But more to the point, here are the things I put on my Tzeentch Sorcerer.

Burning Brand of Skalathrax.
Mark of Tzeentch.
Disc of Tzeentch.
Spell Familiar
Sigil of Corruption.

I believe those are the big 5. (Psyker lvl 3 too, but that's a default for me).

At lvl 3 you're wanting to roll a Witchfire, a Blessing and a Malediction on the abilities, however because you have to roll on Tzeentch, you'll want to try to get your Witchfire there. I recommend aiming for Doombolt if you can, since the BBoS gives you great Infantry Killing while the Doombolt can be used against vehicles. So you can alternate what you want to shoot at that point, depending on what you are targeting.

The Disc gives you Jetbike, which also confers a +1 Toughness to your Sorcerer (so there is an added Mark of Nurgle effect there, without paying for the mark) as well as getting 12" move wherever you need to be.

This guy has kind of turned into my Chaos equivalent of the Vindicare Assassin.

I'm told you can stick this guy in Bikers and Spawn squads, but since I have neither, he runs around by himself and is damned good at it too. Wherever I need support, he's there to lend just the right hand at just the right time.

For 1500 I'd suggest cutting the burning brand, just too many points spent on a fairly fragile model.

I'm running a JP libby in my SM army and it's a really freshing change of pace utilizing witchfires and maledictions.

You can do something like this,
For HQ make a sorc mlvl3 give him MOT, disc, BBoS, SoC. Go for 10 simple cultists for troops. And go for 5 bikes, 2 meltas? And maybe a powerfist? I would prefer a DP for my allied detachment though if I were you. A DP and a Heldrake.

If I was to suggest that you attempt to get the same powers each game, it would probably be Hallucination and Endurance with a Level 3... but let me know when your sorcerers roll what they need because I'm still waiting for that

 Brometheus wrote:
If I was to suggest that you attempt to get the same powers each game, it would probably be Hallucination and Endurance with a Level 3... but let me know when your sorcerers roll what they need because I'm still waiting for that

I-no-rite? lol.

As a rule of thumb, I roll on Tzeentch, Divination and Biomancy. At least with Div and Biomancy I've got a decent shot at Blessings and Mals. And if for some reason I roll Boon of Mutation on Tzeentch, then I can turn one of those other two rolls into Primaris and get my Witchfire that way. You're not guaranteed that ideal spell set, but if you're clever and with a little finesse, you can roll out your abilities in some kind of order and give yourself the best chances of getting those blessings or maledictions. The way I do it actually seems to give me a less chance of ending up with extra witchfires I can't use.

@Aijec: Perhaps. I'm still trying to figure out a way to bring that cost on him down some more because he is so fragile and I have nothing to run him around with. I thought about stuffing him in with my Marines or something but I am loathe to the idea of letting all that artillery not getting into fire range when I need it.

I love my BBoS on Disc though. It's like having a miniature heldrake on the field. lol

Wait.. Div?

Oh man, if Ahriman could roll on Div... Well nevermind.

 Brometheus wrote:
Wait.. Div?

Oh man, if Ahriman could roll on Div... Well nevermind.

lol, and I've got my books next to me. Telepathy! There we go. He should be able to Div though since we was leader of the Corvidae.

Stop, you're making sense

So I actually can't seem to find a 40k model for a disc of Tzeentch.. There is one for fantasy but is there a 40k model? Or is it something you have to make on your own? Thanks

You could use a flying base on top of a flying base with some paint/greenstuff to make it cool.. Or you could get either the Burning Chariot or WHFB sorcerer lord of disc kits. There will be a small amount of customization regardless of the method you use to get one

zhutch wrote:So I actually can't seem to find a 40k model for a disc of Tzeentch.. There is one for fantasy but is there a 40k model? Or is it something you have to make on your own? Thanks

Nop. Which sucks cause I'm looking for one too and I really don't want to buy the damn chariot, a Herald of Tzeentch or a three pack of screamers (although I hear screamerstars aren't so bad). It's a painful search, to say the least, since I'm sure most people aren't using those units besides for the discs. lol

Brometheus wrote:Stop, you're making sense

Oh shizzle! Don't tell GW!!