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One of the most important inventions in Human history yadda, yadda. But aren't they just computers with blueprints and schematics?
Supposedly, one must simply tell the computer what he wants to build and it provides him with all the instructions needed to make the object from materials available.

We have that today, don't we? It's called the Internet. One must simply google what he wants to build, and all the instructions will be provided in the following links.


Well, there are STCs that work as factories and build stuff on their own, but that's a different story.

Broly wrote:

We have that today, don't we? It's called the Internet. One must simply google what he wants to build, and all the instructions will be provided in the following links.

Actually internet is far from STC capabilities - you'll be very lucky to find something more advanced than basic and hobbyist stuff. For rest of it you'll need help of experts' societies - real driving force of internet. And there's always "commercial secrets" and "state security secrets" - ie some things won't be there anytime soon, like real current nuke schematics or jet engine blueprints.

STC is much more like databank with _self-adjusting_ blueprints complemented by full se of self-adjusting _technological_charts_ ( dunno proper english term - ie documents that show HOW you make things in blueprints with materials and tools at hand, operation by operation). Given how STC is described - all the current IT tech is children's toys next to it. Basically with STC AI database you can jump from Bronze Age to DAoT as fast as you can build "machines to make machines to make machines to.." - ie VERY fast if there's a resource base for that.


Though "current" state of affairs for AM is quite familiar for ones who searched internet for something not "in current trend"- most of useful stuff is buried as pieces in pile of garbage, parts of 'em never to be found, references are made to unknown sources which are threated as available at hand - and most of search avenues are dead ends due to sites and forums bein' closed/restructured/restricted, files and pictures unavailable. And you never know what final result will be until you try
BTW we did and forgot that much already that there's subset of archeology called 'industrial archeology'. Though it's more of preservation and archiving kind and barring real "long night" event it must stay that way - it's good to have technology for building steam engine without modern tools and people who can do that ( for hobby/tourist attraction), but if you really NEED it...

A fully functioning STC has various representations in the background giving us multiple uses of a 'fully functional STC'. These range from STC machines, like a tank, to a database of blueprints to actual fully automated production lines. Typically one would expect that in its truest sense, a fully functioning STC would be a production line that, provided with raw materials can churn out a vehicle with no human intervention.

When STC were commonly used (I'll point out here, that I have no specific source for this, the information having been learnt from various sources over many years, so I hold what I say to be true but you must take it with a pinch of salt), anyway, colonists with the STC should have been able to turn the machine on and it would analyse its environment to determine what raw materials were available locally and then use this onformation to modify whatever blueprints it contained and then to create whatever item the colonist required. Obviously the flaw in that plan is that with no actual engineers or technical experts required it is easy to see that without the STC no-one knew how to build anything. Additionally this kind of machine is far in advance of anything available today.

Until recently the background stated that no 'fully functioning STC' data had ever been recovered in the Age of Imperium. Some authors have muddied the waters on this subject and have STC constructs left, right and centre but the Quest for Knowledge is predicated on finding not only STC databases, manufactoria, and constructs but blueprints produced by STC or photocopies of those blueprints or even just sketches of STC items whatever they might be with even something that vague seen as a monumental re-discovery. This is not to say that many STC items exist, but nothing new has been found.

Jet engine blueprints on the internet. Just saying

http://www.wrenturbines.co.uk/mw54-turbo-jet-and-turbo-prop-second-stage-plans

You may be confused because STC can refer to several things in the fluff.

It can simply refer to the blueprints the actual STC machine makes. This will give you a specific STC for a Lasgun, dishwashers, etc...

But more properly it refers to the machine itself. Which is not only a repository of information, but also capable of creating the actual items. Its basically a star trek replicator that can make both the object itself as well as the schematics for you to make it with local materials. You could say you need a tractor and punch in what local materials you had available(including any sources of fuel) and it would spit out a design that you could use, some could give you the actual machine and others would only give you the blueprints. I assume this means that there was some variation in the STC machines themselves, some having nanobot factories and others not.

However, all STC machines that have been found to date have degraded so much that they can only make a few designs(data corruption) and/or can only put out designs because the machine has fallen into disrepair.

Mankind regressed technologically because the STC machines did all the work for them. And eventually people forgot how to maintain their machines. And so we have machines that no longer function.


The Ad Mech has been trying to find a fully intact STC machine ever since they were founded. Its basically the holy grail for their religion, and it would put mankind squarely in the position of galactic dominance.

Mankind's technology almost rivaled the Eldar at its height, and would certainly eclipse them at this point in time. If they could only find an intact STC machine, because the machine were also capable of replicating themselves so you'd only need to find one.

Grey Templar, the necrons would still be better

On a purely technological level, yes.

 Imperator_Class wrote:
Grey Templar, the necrons would still be better

True - but most of them are asleep. If the IoM ever found a fully functional STC machine (and the AdMech approved of distributing copies all over, which they won't) every imperial world could be churning out high-tech weapons, vehicles, infrastructure, medical equipment. Even if the Necrons are incredibly powerful they can be swamped in sheer advanced-enough numbers, especially seeing as they have only a few truly intelligent leaders awake who trust each other exactly zero.

Even if they didn't share the info widely it would make a huge difference.

Besides the IoM can take on the Necrons now, its just difficult. And you only need a couple Cyclonic torpedoes through the front door to shut a Tomb World down permanently.

I think the 3D printer is the first step to a fully functional STC Machine

The first step in a very long road, but, yeah.

Though, in all honesty, I think I would list the automated car factory (I almost wrote "manufactorum"... sigh. ) was the first step. Provide the raw materials (parts) and robots can assemble a car.

It more than likely uses nanobots to create the things it makes. Which while a similar result to a 3-D printer(3-D object) and it uses an electronic template that is where similarities stop.

STC constructs were the pinnacle creation of mankind which could produce anything based on the needs of the user. It was for colonies to be self sufficient as humanity spread out to the stars.

As far as we know from the fluff the immperium has no STC constructs.

Instead, they have STC templates, which are essentially blueprints for use in the machine. These are worth fighting entire wars over do to their "perfection."

So if they had STCs that were automated factories requiring no human labor why did they create the Men of Iron? I understand the Men of Iron are what really caused the end of the DAoT, rather than the STC factories themselves.

Just because your factory is automated doesn't mean you don't need something to keep your house clean, your children edumacated and your old folk safely out of your way allowing you to enjoy your life

 Flinty wrote:
Jet engine blueprints on the internet. Just saying

http://www.wrenturbines.co.uk/mw54-turbo-jet-and-turbo-prop-second-stage-plans

chyron wrote:you'll be very lucky to find something more advanced than basic and hobbyist stuff

Hobbyist stuff

Though possibly one can find something like WWII/second gen. stuff.

 Grey Templar wrote:

Mankind's technology almost rivaled the Eldar at its height, and would certainly eclipse them at this point in time. If they could only find an intact STC machine, because the machine were also capable of replicating themselves so you'd only need to find one.

A little far-reaching, I'd have a tough time believing this.

 Flinty wrote:
Just because your factory is automated doesn't mean you don't need something to keep your house clean, your children edumacated and your old folk safely out of your way allowing you to enjoy your life

Thats pretty grim. I guess they would kill all the children first.

chyron wrote:

 Flinty wrote:
Jet engine blueprints on the internet. Just saying

http://www.wrenturbines.co.uk/mw54-turbo-jet-and-turbo-prop-second-stage-plans

chyron wrote:you'll be very lucky to find something more advanced than basic and hobbyist stuff

Hobbyist stuff

Though possibly one can find something like WWII/second gen. stuff.

heh. The concept of hobbyist jet engines amuses me

 Farseer Faenyin wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

Mankind's technology almost rivaled the Eldar at its height, and would certainly eclipse them at this point in time. If they could only find an intact STC machine, because the machine were also capable of replicating themselves so you'd only need to find one.

A little far-reaching, I'd have a tough time believing this.

It does say that in the Eldar codex (don't know if it changed in the new one I'm going from the old one) that the Eldar had no equal and excelled above all other races, but it doesn't say by how much nor has GW really gone into dark age of technology(AFAIK). I have not read up on everything that there is on the DAOT, but I do believe that what is written is on how it is a "mythic" age and not a lot of the tech is talked about. AFAIK GW has done little with what kind of tech mankind had at this age and I believe most of it came out during the 1980's and science fiction has come along way since then and while the other races such as the Eldar/Dark Eldar and the Tau have their tech expanded on it distances what GW wrote for the DAOT all those years ago. I do believe the Men of Iron were mankind's greatest achievement at the time being cheap imitations of the necrons and by cheap I mean that they were still really darn good with a lot of scary tech just not the god like tech the necrons have. How close was mankind to the Eldar can't say, but with the Eldar more interested in pleasure mankind could have become an emerging threat for the Eldar and could have come far enough that the Eldar couldn't have just put mankind back in its place without having to fight a difficult war.

 Flinty wrote:


heh. The concept of hobbyist jet engines amuses me

Well, welcome to the first Golden Age of Technology. There's man who built CRUISE MISSILE (google for "Bruce Simpson", one who's not an athlete).

And btw hobbyist/amateur planes,gliders and RC models are dime a dozen as far as quantity and not COST is concerned , main setback is safety regulations and not lack of knowledge/technical capabilities/restrictive costs.

So far, all that is shown is 2nd generation or later blueprints from an STC system. The STC itself was an AI that would take a request and design a machine to fill it given the limitations of the current environment.

The technology that the Machine Cult has recovered is only the most useful and durable of humanity's inventions from the past. It is by no means the apex of what humanity had been capable of. As is mentioned in some of the Tau fluff, where they discuss how the Empire's current vehicles are debased copies of much higher tech.

You could put a STC system in an auto factory, and have it churn out anything you wanted, but the problem is no one has a functional STC, and odds are even if they found one the Mechanicus may destroy it because it is clearly an AI and thus forbidden, or more likely have a civil war as some wish to use it and others destroy it.

Durandal wrote:
So far, all that is shown is 2nd generation or later blueprints from an STC system. The STC itself was an AI that would take a request and design a machine to fill it given the limitations of the current environment.

The technology that the Machine Cult has recovered is only the most useful and durable of humanity's inventions from the past. It is by no means the apex of what humanity had been capable of. As is mentioned in some of the Tau fluff, where they discuss how the Empire's current vehicles are debased copies of much higher tech.

You could put a STC system in an auto factory, and have it churn out anything you wanted, but the problem is no one has a functional STC, and odds are even if they found one the Mechanicus may destroy it because it is clearly an AI and thus forbidden, or more likely have a civil war as some wish to use it and others destroy it.

In what book is that discussed? I have never heard of that before, sounds interesting.

I always imagined the Men of Iron would be used in a military role, this is where I imagined much of the problem came from.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

Durandal wrote:
odds are even if they found one the Mechanicus may destroy it because it is clearly an AI and thus forbidden, or more likely have a civil war as some wish to use it and others destroy it.

In what book is that discussed? I have never heard of that before, sounds interesting.

Not really sure, and not sure on the AI part either. But a fully functional STC machine was reportedly good enough that it could evaluate any request settlers on that planet had, do a sweep for available materials and tell them what they needed to bring it in order to produce a locally-optimized version of an STC product for them. It really was a most astounding machine. Whether it was an AI or not is an entirely different line of questioning.

I always imagined that the Men of Iron turned on mankind because towards the end of the DAoT, psyker mutation started, and the DAoT humans wanted to study them.

But, because *AIs are smarter than people handwave*, the Men of Iron turned on mankind in an effort to wipe out the Psykers.

Humans: "Of course, we can't wipe out the psykers, we have to study them? Are you nuts? You must be!" *enter war*

This puts the blame for the Fall of Mankind solely on the shoulders of human ignorance (ironically) and the Chaos Gods, where I believe it should firmly rest.

EDIT:
This also fits in well with the "science is Religion" theme for the DAoT, literally. Science was so important to Mankind that they would kill For Science! Including wiping out their own AIs.

A full STC is like the machine from the Gaunt's Ghosts novel, which was a fully automated assembly line that built Iron Men, unfortunately it was tainted by Chaos and just built abominations.

There are scattered stories in GW fluff of the Imperium having actual STC machines, or at least full blueprints. Supposedly the Leman Russ is a modified tractor unit, and I remember one about a Guard regiment that uses special combat knives that are STC.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

In what book is that discussed? I have never heard of that before, sounds interesting.

IIRC "Fire Warrior", but can be from latest batches of short stories. Will check when i had free time.

chyron wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

In what book is that discussed? I have never heard of that before, sounds interesting.

IIRC "Fire Warrior", but can be from latest batches of short stories. Will check when i had free time.

I'll check it out, thanks.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Even if they didn't share the info widely it would make a huge difference.

Besides the IoM can take on the Necrons now, its just difficult. And you only need a couple Cyclonic torpedoes through the front door to shut a Tomb World down permanently.

Yeah, those are the guys still taking a dirtnap. Otherwise you'll get a Necron capital ship bulldozing your entire armada as it attempts to seize the Void Dragon.