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Hey guys I'm painting some ravenwing black knights, and I'm curious if I should bother going over my walmart spray black primer with abaddon black, I think the abaddon black is slightly darker, but that might not necessarily be a good thing I'm thinking, as the lighter black might be able to blend better with the grey highlights. Anyone with experience in whether or notpainting over black primer's helps would be appreciated.

Are planning on going over the model with a gloss varnish? That might darken up the base coat without messing up the highlights.

When painting blacks your basecoat colour should never be pure black anyway, it should be a really dark grey.
Personally I go with eshin grey washed nuln oil. Then highlight with the usual greys (I'm still using codex and fortress)
Initially this will look odd, but the sharper you go with your highlights the blacker the armour looks
Hope that helps

Brother Payne wrote:
When painting blacks your basecoat colour should never be pure black anyway, it should be a really dark grey.
Personally I go with eshin grey washed nuln oil. Then highlight with the usual greys (I'm still using codex and fortress)
Initially this will look odd, but the sharper you go with your highlights the blacker the armour looks
Hope that helps

I do this as well. I use a dark grey primer from Rustoleum/Krylon and apply a liberal coat of Nuln Oil. You can use more to deepen the color as needed.

Thanks guys, I'm more looking for advice on whether or not painting over black primer with a black paint is necessary as opposed to what to paint over grey primer.. Although as I compare it to another model I painted with abaddon black, it is a much more dark grey than it is an actual black.

Primer isn't paint, it won't look the same on the model. Paints usually have a shine o them, even when dulled down with a matte. Primer looks..... Like.... Primer....... There's stuff I've done that's pitch black brushed with metal. The stuff with primer only didn' quite work out right. It's as you say: the primer isn't really all that black. Some from other brands might....

yes, you should 100% paint it with a proper black paint. the walmart stuff is really not good enough to show through in a finished model IMO.

if you went with an expensive black primer like GW black primer or army painter black primer you could probably get away with it. but for walmart flat black, definitely not.

it is an absolutely wonderful product for the price but not a substitute for a base coat.

kb305 wrote:
yes, you should 100% paint it with a proper black paint. the walmart stuff is really not good enough to show through in a finished model IMO.
if you went with an expensive black primer like GW black primer or army painter black primer you could probably get away with it. but for walmart flat black, definitely not.

I disagree, completely. Cost isn't necessarily indicative of quality, especially where GW hobby supplies are concerned - ColorPlace flat black gives every bit as nice a finish as GW's Chaos Black spray. They're both just enamel spray paint, after all - none of the fuzziness you might expect from a thicker primer with heavy tooth, which likely would look odd without a topcoat. After varnishing (most model paints are a bit more satin than matte, so you need varnish to even the sheen), it's indistinguishable from "proper" painted surfaces - the only potential issue is the color. If you're happy with it, OP, I'd say you'll be absolutely fine, if (and only if) you plan to also varnish the models.

I use walmart paints to do my base-coating on large pieces without fine detail. Heavy-handed DRY brush ftw. takes more time, but cheaper, and less damage to evironment. yyyaaaaaayyyyy.

 oadie wrote:

kb305 wrote:
yes, you should 100% paint it with a proper black paint. the walmart stuff is really not good enough to show through in a finished model IMO.
if you went with an expensive black primer like GW black primer or army painter black primer you could probably get away with it. but for walmart flat black, definitely not.

I disagree, completely. Cost isn't necessarily indicative of quality, especially where GW hobby supplies are concerned - ColorPlace flat black gives every bit as nice a finish as GW's Chaos Black spray. They're both just enamel spray paint, after all - none of the fuzziness you might expect from a thicker primer with heavy tooth, which likely would look odd without a topcoat. After varnishing (most model paints are a bit more satin than matte, so you need varnish to even the sheen), it's indistinguishable from "proper" painted surfaces - the only potential issue is the color. If you're happy with it, OP, I'd say you'll be absolutely fine, if (and only if) you plan to also varnish the models.

you probably just have low standards. it looks more like a dark grey first of all and it seems to have some kind of grit in it (tiny specs of other colors).

edit: or maybe the formula is different in the US or maybe i dont shake/warm up the can enough.

kb305 wrote:

 oadie wrote:

kb305 wrote:
yes, you should 100% paint it with a proper black paint. the walmart stuff is really not good enough to show through in a finished model IMO.
if you went with an expensive black primer like GW black primer or army painter black primer you could probably get away with it. but for walmart flat black, definitely not.

I disagree, completely. Cost isn't necessarily indicative of quality, especially where GW hobby supplies are concerned - ColorPlace flat black gives every bit as nice a finish as GW's Chaos Black spray. They're both just enamel spray paint, after all - none of the fuzziness you might expect from a thicker primer with heavy tooth, which likely would look odd without a topcoat. After varnishing (most model paints are a bit more satin than matte, so you need varnish to even the sheen), it's indistinguishable from "proper" painted surfaces - the only potential issue is the color. If you're happy with it, OP, I'd say you'll be absolutely fine, if (and only if) you plan to also varnish the models.

you probably just have low standards. it looks more like a dark grey first of all and it seems to have some kind of grit in it (tiny specs of other colors).

edit: or maybe the formula is different in the US or maybe i dont shake/warm up the can enough.

Primer is not paint. Primer is never paint. You do not paint with primer. You prime with primer. You paint with paint. Dark primers for dark paints, bright primers for bright paints. In most cases, if the primer is off a little, it's fine.

I ended up painting the models, the primer was a completely different color the abaddon black was much richer. Unfortunately when I gave a nuln oil wash it ended up looking just like the primer. Still I agree primer isn't paint and the colors are noticably duller, and not as good.

I would, using a thinned black paint.
Primer leaves a rough finish to help the next layer stick + it's hard not to miss a spot with a spray primer.

 oadie wrote:
Cost isn't necessarily indicative of quality, especially where GW hobby supplies are concerned.

And especially where black is concerned. I've done some tests painting miniatures with my ordinary artists acrylics. It doesn't work very well for lighter colours because of the lower pigment count, but for black it is always the same. Even my cheapo £1 for a liter bottle of school-grade acrylic paint, is indistinguishable from chaos black. It's definitely an area where you can cut costs without cutting quality.

 Smacks wrote:

 oadie wrote:
Cost isn't necessarily indicative of quality, especially where GW hobby supplies are concerned.

And especially where black is concerned. I've done some tests painting miniatures with my ordinary artists acrylics. It doesn't work very well for lighter colours because of the lower pigment count, but for black it is always the same. Even my cheapo £1 for a liter bottle of school-grade acrylic paint, is indistinguishable from chaos black. It's definitely an area where you can cut costs without cutting quality.

I have seen a lot of good work using the acrylics from Walmart. The only reason I recognize that is because I went there after the fact to buy black and brown paints to do terrain. The colours certainly didn't pop, but the colours were well done, so was the blending, and the overall effect was impressive. Might not be a way to do a bright marine army or a peacockish army, but the paint job was well done. Might not be able to get onto a golden daemon or crystal brush, but, to be honest, most painters cant do that anyway. What's the point of throwing $50+ when for skill level $20 will suffice for learning how to paint, or, just downright getting that bloody army painted because ""I happen to hate painting".

Due to the fact I'm chewing my way through 140 night goblins, I prime black, and then just drybrush a couple of greys on the black areas. After a dip and dullcote, it looks ok to my eyes. Your opinion may differ;