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Just busted out my newly purchased cygnar list, ive never played with or against them. When a model has electro-leap or chainlightning jumps do they ignore shield wall? To my understanding shields only get their bonus or shield wall against attacks made from their front arc. So my thinking is if i hit model A that is in shield wall and it arcs to model B does model B get the bonus since i never made attack against it? Much like the same way i would bypass stealth?

Shield Wall provides a +4 ARM bonus against damage originating in the front arc of the model, not attacks. If the 'leap' came from a model in the front arc it will be subject to the bonus.

derp

I'm pretty sure EL are not simultaneous, but resolved on hit.

Ah right my bad, I was right on the people still getting shield wall when they are getting eleaped to if they had it when the model hit, but very wrong on the why.

The E-leap is originating from the model that was hit with the attack, so you determine Shield Wall from that direction.

E-leap is probably the only true issue with PP's rule set. It causes a bunch of problems so beware.

Thanks for the insights guys. I was hoping it would ignore SW. Haha. Awe well. This brings ups a new question however for when the hits and damage takes place and who it will strike.

1) If two possible leap targets are equidistance from the original model how do you determine where it goes? In friendly games i could see myself just rolling off, bit how is this issue tackled in tournament play?

2)So with how i am understanding it lets say Nemo3 casts Chain lightning on Model A and hits...do i roll the damage for Model A and resolve its effects before rolling for the number of leaps and determine thier targets? And then to that simultaneous issue...when do i resolve the leap damage?

3) When determining leap targets the spell says, "A model hit by chain lightning suffers a POW10 electric damage roll, and lightning arcs from that model to D6 consecutive models. The lightning arcs to the nearest model it has not already arced to igniring this model. Each model hit suffers POW10 electric damage roll." My question is i hit Model A, and it will arc to 3 other models. So it goes to Models B,C, and D in a line...what if there are only 2 othet models? Will it go to models B, then C and back to A if it survived or hasnt had a damage roll yet? Im clarifing because model A never had lightning arced to it. And in that same respect if it was arcing to 4 models could it go from model A to B to C back to A and then to B?

Sorry for all the questions and "what ifs". Total noob for cygnar.

2) The arc is determined on the hit. So if you hit a model you then roll the additional attack(s). Resolve those attacks and then resolve the damage of the original attack.

3)A model can only get hit once by any given leap/chain lightning. So if you get more leaps than models that can be hit then you lose the extra leaps. Don't forget that you can hit your own models with the leaps except the originator of the leap and Nemo 3's special rule.

 The Thunder Child wrote:

1) If two possible leap targets are equidistance from the original model how do you determine where it goes? In friendly games i could see myself just rolling off, bit how is this issue tackled in tournament play?

You would decide as it is your ability.

2)So with how i am understanding it lets say Nemo3 casts Chain lightning on Model A and hits...do i roll the damage for Model A and resolve its effects before rolling for the number of leaps and determine thier targets? And then to that simultaneous issue...when do i resolve the leap damage?

You would roll the number of extra hits before any damage. Chain Lightning explicitly says the damage rolls are consecutive, so resolve each damage roll before doing the next.

3) When determining leap targets the spell says, "A model hit by chain lightning suffers a POW10 electric damage roll, and lightning arcs from that model to D6 consecutive models. The lightning arcs to the nearest model it has not already arced to igniring this model. Each model hit suffers POW10 electric damage roll." My question is i hit Model A, and it will arc to 3 other models. So it goes to Models B,C, and D in a line...what if there are only 2 othet models? Will it go to models B, then C and back to A if it survived or hasnt had a damage roll yet? Im clarifing because model A never had lightning arced to it. And in that same respect if it was arcing to 4 models could it go from model A to B to C back to A and then to B?

The arc can go back to A as it is not a model 'already arced to' but it would stop there. B has already been arced to so it'd be no different to killing it.

 Kojiro wrote:

 The Thunder Child wrote:

1) If two possible leap targets are equidistance from the original model how do you determine where it goes? In friendly games i could see myself just rolling off, bit how is this issue tackled in tournament play?

You would decide as it is your ability.

Nope.

You get no choice in the way that chain lightning arcs around the table. Nor does your opponent. Friendly games the easiest way is to roll off as mentioned. In tournament games there is always a event/tournament organiser. That person is the judge for the day. Any rule issues call them over and let them decide. They may decide one is closer or roll off themselves but that's up to them.

In the wider scheme of things calling a judge over isn't a bad thing. It allows a, hopefully, impartial view of an issue between players. So do call if you think something ain't quite right.

 yastobaal wrote:
They may decide one is closer or roll off themselves but that's up to them.

Even when they are actually the identical distance away? You still roll?

 Kojiro wrote:

3) When determining leap targets the spell says, "A model hit by chain lightning suffers a POW10 electric damage roll, and lightning arcs from that model to D6 consecutive models. The lightning arcs to the nearest model it has not already arced to igniring this model. Each model hit suffers POW10 electric damage roll." My question is i hit Model A, and it will arc to 3 other models. So it goes to Models B,C, and D in a line...what if there are only 2 othet models? Will it go to models B, then C and back to A if it survived or hasnt had a damage roll yet? Im clarifing because model A never had lightning arced to it. And in that same respect if it was arcing to 4 models could it go from model A to B to C back to A and then to B?

The arc can go back to A as it is not a model 'already arced to' but it would stop there. B has already been arced to so it'd be no different to killing it.

Edit: the bit in italics is wrong
According to the rule as quoted it will not go back to model A

A model hit by chain lightning suffers a POW10 electric damage roll, and lightning arcs from that model to D6 consecutive models. The lightning arcs to the nearest model it has not already arced to igniring this model.

It ignores this model, referring to model A, the start of the chain.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 motyak wrote:

 yastobaal wrote:
They may decide one is closer or roll off themselves but that's up to them.

Even when they are actually the identical distance away? You still roll?

That's up to the judge. It needs to go to the closest model. If players cannot decide then it's down to the judge. If they cannot then in my mind the best way is to roll but the judge should make that decision.

 yastobaal wrote:

 motyak wrote:

 yastobaal wrote:
They may decide one is closer or roll off themselves but that's up to them.

Even when they are actually the identical distance away? You still roll?

That's up to the judge. It needs to go to the closest model. If players cannot decide then it's down to the judge. If they cannot then in my mind the best way is to roll but the judge should make that decision.

I more meant when there is no ambiguity, like in shieldwall, they'll be B2B so do you just dice off, you pick, or does the judge just come and randomly pick?

 motyak wrote:

 yastobaal wrote:

 motyak wrote:

 yastobaal wrote:
They may decide one is closer or roll off themselves but that's up to them.

Even when they are actually the identical distance away? You still roll?

That's up to the judge. It needs to go to the closest model. If players cannot decide then it's down to the judge. If they cannot then in my mind the best way is to roll but the judge should make that decision.

I more meant when there is no ambiguity, like in shieldwall, they'll be B2B so do you just dice off, you pick, or does the judge just come and randomly pick?

If two models are at the same distance for electro-leap then you randomize which one gets hit.

Cheers

 yastobaal wrote:
According to the rule as quoted it will not go back to model A

A model hit by chain lightning suffers a POW10 electric damage roll, and lightning arcs from that model to D6 consecutive models. The lightning arcs to the nearest model it has not already arced to igniring this model.

It ignores this model, referring to model A, the start of the chain.

Incorrect. "This model" refers to the model casting the spell in this case. Leaps don't go back to the spellcaster, but can to the initial model hit. So since Model A has not had a lightning arc to it, it is a valid model for leaps and so can get double-zotted if it is the next closest model available.

Reference:

HORDES: Primal p. 28 wrote:In a model's rules, "this model" always refers to the model carrying the rule.

And stuff.

Ooooo. So you can cast while really close and still be safe. Right. Got ya.

I don't think that leaps from chain lightning can hit the original target. The spell says that after hitting the target you can hit "d6 consecutive additional models". Since the original target can not be an additional model it can not be hit by the leap.

The thing is each leap is consecutive. So after determining the number of leaps, you check in each instance based on criteria (closest within 4" that hasn't been hit already). A model can be part of its own set of additional models, basically. The only prohibition in who can get zotted is the "this model" clause.

And stuff.

I'm thinking it would ignore shield wall, the shield argue lay made of metal that lighting will go strate through.

That's where you need to disconnect from reality.

By that same logic, any armor made of conductive metal would be useless. But that would break the game. And what exactly is everybody's armor value without their armor?


Of course, when wearing armor there is usually copious amounts of padding to prevent the armor from hurting the wearer. That same padding will help against conduction, so instead of going through the body it will go through the armor only and go to the ground. Likely singing the wearer but not as bad it could have been.

So checked on the rules forum at PP:
http://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?184001-Chain-Lightning-Arcing-to-Original-Target

The Infernal ruling seems to indicate what was said above: the "additional models" part of the spell apparently does prevent the arcs from looping back to the intial target. In a single casting of the spell a model can only be hit once.

And stuff.

Dang guys! Never thought this would end up as a debate! Thanks for all the great input though!!

You're welcome.

You should consider signing up on the PP forums. They have a rules question forum where you can get official rulings on rule questions. Anybody that's marked as an Infernal gives official rulings on questions. So you can get a 100% confirmed ruling which is always nice.

They don't always respond however, usually because the correct answer has been given.

I have signed up, but i cant post anything ot start any threads. And no i didnt get banned, lol. Never got to post!

Your account hasn't been activated yet. If its been more than a day you should PM a mod.

It happened to me when I signed up.

Thanks!

This was actually an example of the debate going well to be honest. I had actually been thinking for a while now that hte leaps go back to the initial target and have played it such. I then looked on the forum and found in searching that....it never got ruled on. Hence the thread there.

Sometimes it helps just to ask the question on some things.

And stuff.