Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

so i want to start building up a fast section of my army to compliment my battlewagon rush, as i generally don't do more than 3 wagons as the nobz needed to get them are too expensive to be viable these days. as such i usually fill up my wagons at around 1k points (which is 3 mobs of shootas and a KFF mek in 3 wagons, 999pts). the games i usually play are 1750pts so i need some cheap units to increase my presence on the board, and i want them fast.

to that end i've decided to bring in an ork air force, comprised of the ork jets and bommas and some allied-in warkoptas from the IA8 dreadmob. so here's the questions:

which of the two ork bommas is the best against eldar? I don't want to just run 2 dakkajets as I want my opponent to be umming and ahing about which flier to get rid of, not just 'pick a dakkajet any dakkajet', so i want 2-3 different ones. most likely it'll be two, so i need to know which will work best with my dakkajet.

next up is the warkoptas - in squadrons of 3 i can see them being very effective, as you can hide them on turn 1 then use the fast skimmers rules to great effect and get behind the opponent, then have 6 hull points and a 4+ save to soak up the firepower. generally eldar will have to either get out of their tanks and make themselves vulnerable but be able to fire enough shots to deal with the koptas, or turn their tanks round to fire their no-cover shields, making them even more vulnerable as the wagons by then will be able to roll into 'aaand you're glanced to death' range. i was also putting some serious thought into putting burnas in one of the koptas and keeping it behind the other two, so the opponent feels more threatened. alternatively, they probably won't suspect the koptas to have such good anti rear armour firepower, so might elect to ignore them if they're empty.

thoughts?

Orcs are fun to play and aganist, but they suck big time!!!

If you want to win dont play orcs.

*clap clap clap clap clap*

solid advice by one of the Primary colors. but I think he wanted actual advice.

Anyways, I think a burna kopta would be a terrifying thing to fight against. so many templates and wounds could really put the hurt on a unit!

If your willing to go without the safety net of a normal Ork HQ and scoring nobs, I'd take two dakka jets, one burna bomber, and two warp head weird boys as HQs.

With two rolls (with rerolls) on the psychic powers table and one auto Waagh its possible to get 4 Waaghs a game if guys live long enough. Thats a lot of dakka coming from your planes.

It should shred a lot of light infantry units and even do a good job of hunting light tanks.

Oi
amazing but I was preparing similar build. But instead of burnas I was planning put Tankbustas. I know that their are not the best but heck. Rokits are awsome.

Ork airforce tends to kaboom at the end of it's first movement phase since most armies have a few interceptor AA. They look cool but don't expect them to be useful untill u're capable of taking down aa weapons turn 1 (which i bet u'r list can't afford).

Against eldar I wouldn't bring anything but dakkajets. Burna bommers are great against armies with lots of 4+ or worse saves, but are a complete waste of points against anything else. Since most the commonly used eldar units are either 3+ (aspect warriors, wraiths), have invul saves (HQs, warlocks) or are hiding inside of vehicles, a burna bommer will have a hard time finding any worthwile targets.

The dakkajet is great at taking out eldar because it causes instant death and pinning, and also is pretty reliable at glancing serpents if you buy the fighta boss upgrade.

The blitza bommer sucks and should never be used. End of story. If in doubt, put the most fragile vehicle in the game, a trukk, on the table, and try to destroy it with a blitza bommer.

I've never actually used warkoptas, but in my opinion, they are a little too expensive for flying(skimming) trukks. The rattler is a cute weapon, but they pretty much die to a stiff breeze. If anything, I'd put a unit of boyz inside and reserve them for objective grabs, no more.
I think a unit of regular koptaz would almost always outperform them.
When you are counting on your opponent to do a mistake (ignore the warkoptaz) for them to work at all, that's a pretty good indicator for a unit not being worth your time.

Ignore anyone who calls them "Orcs"

Dakkajet is pretty decent, some people say the Burna is worth it (not me though), but forget the Blitza it's a pile of crap

thanks for the replies guys!

@ mr.blue: i win about 50% of the games i play with orks, most often against the new eldar, against a competitive but still fairly fun player (he generally avoids the deathstars as they make the game terrible, in both our opinions). so please don't start saying outright 'orks are terrible'. have you ever faced down 45 lootas in armour 14 battlewagon bunkers with AV12 tanks? orks can still bring the pain on anyone who dares underestimate them, and the only things lootas can't hurt are generally quite poorly armed (landraiders and monolith, generally have little damage output for their points) and the powerklaws deal with them.

anyway, lesson over.

@ Jidmah: the reliance on a mistake isn't really there, i think i might not have made it clear. it wornks in the same way as the 'suddenly deffkoptas' distraction, where you use your first turn to get behind the enemy. so many armies now are primarily pointing forwards, getting behind them in turn 1 can disrupt a front-armour battleline, make close combat units move away from your army, and other useful disruptions. so the opponent is put in a "damned if i do, damned if i don't" position. he can turn around and deal with them, and expose his rear armour to me, or he can fire a limited amount at them (as a lot of guns only face forward, holo fields for example) and risk them surviving, or he can get out, leave his front-armour line intact and then get shot to death when fliers arrive (with 3 fliers i'll expect at least one to arrive turn 2). last but not least he can ignore them, and have 3 TL deffguns to the rear armour and whatever unit i had in them shooting too.

as to putting a scoring unit in them instead, i think that's probably a much better idea. i might even put 2 in, as it'll give them 3 units behind them, so 3 of his things will have to shoot backwards. 2 koptas and 2 units of 10 orks comes to 250 points, which is a nice price for something so useful, and it's unlikely he can get 3 things to kill them for that little amount of points.
if only we had some way of getting a better 'steal the initiative', i'd bring them with a trukk rush and be surrounding him after my first movement phase. that always scares 'em.

so yay to the dakkajet and neigh to the other two, yes?

might have to dig out my elysian drop grots...

so yay to the dakkajet and neigh to the other two, yes?

That's the one build that seems to be having success at my LGS. The Dakkajet on a WAAAAAAGH! is a scary thing to behold! Sooooooooo much firepower. It is still an uphill battle but then who doesn't have an uphill battle against Eldar these days?

 some bloke wrote:
@ Jidmah: the reliance on a mistake isn't really there, i think i might not have made it clear. it wornks in the same way as the 'suddenly deffkoptas' distraction, where you use your first turn to get behind the enemy. so many armies now are primarily pointing forwards, getting behind them in turn 1 can disrupt a front-armour battleline, make close combat units move away from your army, and other useful disruptions. so the opponent is put in a "damned if i do, damned if i don't" position. he can turn around and deal with them, and expose his rear armour to me, or he can fire a limited amount at them (as a lot of guns only face forward, holo fields for example) and risk them surviving, or he can get out, leave his front-armour line intact and then get shot to death when fliers arrive (with 3 fliers i'll expect at least one to arrive turn 2). last but not least he can ignore them, and have 3 TL deffguns to the rear armour and whatever unit i had in them shooting too.

We're talking about fast skimmer tanks though. He can just jump over those warkoptaz, face them and your army(read: your lootaz), and them blow the whole squadron away with lucky shooting from one serpent. I have played the absolute majority of my games against an eldar player, and I hardly ever get to shoot any rear armor. If your opponent is careful about these kind of things, he might prevent you from ever shooting rear armor for a whole game. Six open topped HP at AV10 just isn't sturdy enough for those kinds of maneuvers, and 195 points is a lot for a suicide unit. Three separate ones each carrying boyz or gretchin would be enough of a distraction, but then you wouldn't be able to field any planes. One way or another, they are more expensive than deff koptas, but a lot more fragile.

As always, if you already own those models or really want to build your own, go for it. They aren't terrible and can get their job done. They are basically two lootaz stapled to a buggy, and if you use them as such, they might do what you expect from them. Just don't put too many hopes in them and always remember that they might all implode as soon as anything looks funny at them. I just wouldn't spend a hundred bucks to get them from forgeworld, because they have high potential of not doing anything useful except drawing fire.