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I posted this elsewhere but, I'll tap info from Dakka too. I'm planning (way ahead) a C:SM army and trying to decide which chapter. It'll be mostly fluffy, but I'm curious about how the two armies play in comparison. I relate more, in general, to the Imperial Fists, and while different visually, as well as in play style, from my Space Wolves, I think they'd make a good pairing. Ultras fit that too I suppose. What are your opinions of the way the two chapters play? I'm also open to other suggestions, just looking at ones with good third party and ForgeWorld support. Anyone that is particularly fond of these is welcome to give me some info on the fluffy bits too, I need to know what these chapters are like.

I love Imperial Fists. Every bolter type weapon re-rolls ones, so you only miss on rolls of 2. the devestator squads have tank hunter stock. Lysander having 4 wounds and eternal warrior, with a S10 Hammer rocks. Fluff wise I prefer them to Ultramarines. They will fight to the last man, which sometimes ends up being their weakness, their stubbornness to never give up and to always hold the line intrigues me.

The big difference between the two is the Imperial FIst CT is great for general lists, potential rerolls on all bolter weapons, Tank Hunters for your devestators, it's just a good CT. Ultramarines CT is best if you make sure to use their good characters, personally I run a mix of White Scars and Ultramarines allied together this way I make use of the really good bikes with White Scars and can still include Tigerius and Telion with the Ultras.

That's a good bit of info. I do prefer a list that can handle more opponents, as opposed to a less flexible list.

Yellow is a pain to paint, not hard, just more time consuming. Ultramarines are a lot easier to paint

That's true, though I'm not too bothered by it. I plan to use Ghost Tints, anyway. I find yellow, and red, to be easier with an airbrush. I hate painting them by hand, but then I have a severe aversion to layering it seems.

I have never seen/heard of ghost tints before now. They look awesome, im going to pick some up sometime, thanks!

Also if you haven't do some reading. On the characters andbwhat not. Lysander is several times more badass than Calgar. But Calgary did kill a swarmlord (2nd time they met), and has only two people who are considered equal or better in tactics and stragems than him. Dante and Azreal.

Another way of deciding is asking yourself, who would you rather work for/ be a son of

This guy, Mr Dorn

Or this guy, Mr Guilliman

Ultrasmurfs are so omnipresent... anything besides ultramareehns is a welcome sight to the sore eye.

People talk about how common Ultramarines are, yet I'm the only one in my gaming circle who plays them.

It's cool to be BA, DA, Sallys or even BT, but not Ultramarines, so nobody has them. I don't think I've ever even seen another Ultramarine army in person.

I'd say go for Imperial Fists though. Their color scheme is more striking and is a little more attractive than blue imo.

I am painting up some IF now so I'm biased, but fluff wise I think Space Wolves would pair with IF much more readily than the Ultramarines.

I used to despise Ultramarines back in 2nd edition when they were on the cover of everything, but I have noticed very few people actually play them around here. Seems like the other 3 of the main 4 are way more prominent.

raiden wrote:Another way of deciding is asking yourself, who would you rather work for/ be a son of

This guy, Mr Dorn

raiden wrote:Or this guy, Mr Guilliman

Well, that doesn't help much. Awesome vs Awesome. Lol.

PrehistoricUFO wrote:People talk about how common Ultramarines are, yet I'm the only one in my gaming circle who plays them.

It's cool to be BA, DA, Sallys or even BT, but not Ultramarines, so nobody has them. I don't think I've ever even seen another Ultramarine army in person.

I'd say go for Imperial Fists though. Their color scheme is more striking and is a little more attractive than blue imo.

That's what I've found too, in my limited exposure. There are always Black Templar here, and Dark Angels, but I've never seen Ultramarines or Imperial Fists.

VanHallan wrote:I am painting up some IF now so I'm biased, but fluff wise I think Space Wolves would pair with IF much more readily than the Ultramarines.

I used to despise Ultramarines back in 2nd edition when they were on the cover of everything, but I have noticed very few people actually play them around here. Seems like the other 3 of the main 4 are way more prominent.

That's so far, one of the main reasons I'm leaning towards IF. They've sided with the Wolves before in things like the Codex Astartes, and their more level-headed personality will balance the brash style of my Wolves. Still reading up, it's a tough choice.

IF,, level headed. LOL. buddy you gotta remember, these are the original angry mahreens.

Ultramehreeeennnns!

But then I'm a Guilleman fanboy. With the limited codex

Glory to the Fourth!

My friend plays Imperial Fists and I play Ultramarines. Both are good solid armies, I would say that neither outshines the other though.
The IF CT are really nice, the bolter drill usually allowing most shots to hit (barring snapshots, of course). Tankhunter is very nice as well.
The UM CT are just as good, allowing you to decide when to use them gives a certain flexibility to the game. Tacticals getting twinlinked for a turn while all others get to reroll 1's can really come in good. Need to move your Devs and not want to give up shooting for a turn? That CT is great.

I would say if you go with Imperial Fists, the CT in the supplement is not as effective as the on in the Codex. Twinlinked at half range does not match up to rerolling 1s all the time.

Sons of DORN!

Imperial fists, playing with the ultra marines has some downsides. Plus if your marines are yellow they cant be called smurfs.

Go UM. Just cyz guilliman

Are the CT active at all times, or limited use? The way it reads is different with the UM it seems.

Um must declare which ct they have that turn (dev And tac. Are amazing)

More so, they can call up each CT once. So turn 2 you use Tactical Doctrine, you don't get to use it any other turn, but turn 3 you could use Devastator Doctrine and turn 5 Assault Doctrine.

Imps get to use their doctrine all game.

Calgar gives UM the old combat tactics and allows 1 extra doctrine of your choice (all while being a rly nice beat stick)

Imperial Fists, but paint them dark blue with a Crimson Fist

Make your own Chapter. Write the fluff you want, use the Chapter Tactics you feel like from game to game.

These "Chapter Tactics" are two months old. Don't let arbitrary decisions by Games Workshop affect how you play, paint, or write your army. Nothing says you can't write your Chapter as descendants of the Ultramarines (66% of all chapters are anyway), but then turn around and use Imperial Fists or White Scars tactics if you feel like it.

There are other criteria I'm using, but as fit that, I'm trying to find the differences to help make a tie breaker.

I specifically wanted a Chapter with lots of third party support, good fluff, etc, etc. I appreciate home made Chapters, a lot of work goes into them, I've just never felt a desire for them.

Still reading a lot of Imperial Fist stuff, but making sure to read up on the Ultras too. So far, I'm enjoying the IF fluff more, as it seems more believable. Sometimes the Ultramarine stuff gets weird, even for such a fantastical universe. Reads a bit like a Marine Corps. recruitment flyer.


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 raiden wrote:
Um must declare which ct they have that turn (dev And tac. Are amazing)

Do the tactics work the same way with the other chapters? That's where my confusion is. I couldn't find where it says one way or the other, as it only specifically states it in the UM section.

no, unless stated otherwise CTs are always active, UM are the only ones having to declare it (but, to be fair, twin linked for tac for one turn, and reroll 1s on everyone else is NICE)