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I am not sure if this already answer, I has google and search dakka dakka for this and find nothing ( until they are in one of search page I haven't seen )

Where can I use fortifications line of sight from?

From model Only or this things?

Its not the Quad gun firing a weapon, its the model and there for it's the model's LoS

As a weapon emplacement, the model fires, and uses his own los.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Bah! Ninja'd again!

Yeah, if another model is firing the quad gun draw line of sight from that model as usual not the quad gun unless the model is firing the quad gun from inside a building and the quad gun is a weapon emplacement. Then you would draw LoS from the gun.

If the weapon were firing on its own some how, you would draw line of sight from its barrels. Since this one has for barrels you could draw line of sight from any of them. I stress again, this is only if the weapon fired on its own some how (and at the moment I cannot think of anything that will let a quad-gun self fire)

Edit for completeness.

I believe the stronghold supplement makes quad/Icarus into emplaced weapons once attached to the bastion roof.

I would fire down the barrel similar to how vehicle weapons work.

 DJGietzen wrote:
If the weapon were firing on its own some how, you would draw line of sight from its barrels.

Do you have a rules reference for this?

Since fortifications have the "vehicle" special rule I think LoS is from the barrel of the gun, not from the occupants shooting it. page 128-129 rulebook

Unless the new rules changed it, buildings do not have a "vehicle" special rule. They just use certain aspects of the vehicle rules.

 DJGietzen wrote:
Yeah, if another model is firing the quad gun draw line of sight from that model as usual not the quad gun.

If the weapon were firing on its own some how, you would draw line of sight from its barrels. Since this one has for barrels you could draw line of sight from any of them. I stress again, this is only if the weapon fired on its own some how (and at the moment I cannot think of anything that will let a quad-gun self fire)

I believe the Quad gun may fire without an operator. But it must fire at the closest target and at a greatly reduced bs

When being fired by a models, you go by the modl's los (doesn't make a lot of sense because you would think the model would be using the sreen to target with but that's the way it is set up)

When firing on auto, it is the targeting arrays that are firing it so I would think that then you would use that to get the los from. However I would discuss this with your opponent because everyone will have a different opinion and some will argue just for the sake of argueing. Most would just have you go by the gun on auto..

Christopher300 wrote:

 DJGietzen wrote:
Yeah, if another model is firing the quad gun draw line of sight from that model as usual not the quad gun.

If the weapon were firing on its own some how, you would draw line of sight from its barrels. Since this one has for barrels you could draw line of sight from any of them. I stress again, this is only if the weapon fired on its own some how (and at the moment I cannot think of anything that will let a quad-gun self fire)

I believe the Quad gun may fire without an operator. But it must fire at the closest target and at a greatly reduced bs

For the quad gun attached to the ADL this is incorrect - it cannot fire without an operator.
For the quad gun on a bastion, supposedly the stronghold book has changed it but I don't own that book so can't say.

Yeah I can't wait to hold of this stronghold explanation rulebook.. And other book too.

Yeah I would agree that we have to ask opposition for how ADL and fortication gun.

For bastion fortication gun will set to automation include heavy bolter on it side are automation if any model are inside bastion in 5th edition. I haven't read this part for 6th editon yet.

In 5 th edition if you get model with fortication gun you use model BS and using screen monitor system.. If there are no model with fortication gun but within building you use auto system...

6th = ditto or not?

Solidcrash wrote:
6th = ditto or not?

It's pretty clear in the 6th edition rulebook how automated fire works and when it applies.

Gun Emplacements bought for a building can be mounted on a battlement, in which case they become an Emplaced Weapon.

 grendel083 wrote:
Gun Emplacements bought for a building can be mounted on a battlement, in which case they become an Emplaced Weapon.

This is an optional rules update included in Stronghold Assault. While what you've said is correct according to SA Supplement, you still need your opp's permission to play it this way.

 insaniak wrote:

 DJGietzen wrote:
If the weapon were firing on its own some how, you would draw line of sight from its barrels.

Do you have a rules reference for this?

Kinda. There are no rules for determining LoS or range from gun emplacements in battlefield derbies like the defense line. We have to infer those rules for ourselves and treating the firing model and the gun emplacement like an artillery unit seems to match RAI. Doing that means LoS must be drawn from both the firing model and the gun barrel of the gun emplacement while range is calculated from the gun barrel only. These guns (as far as I know) cannot autofire.

Weapons on buildings is another matter. Buildings use aspects of the vehicle rules (pg 92). Vehicles can be equipped with weapons range and LoS from those weapons are measured from the barrel (pg72). Building equiped with weapons can be fired by models in the building pg(98) We know that when an occupying model is firing the weapon in manual fire mode the LoS is measured from the weapon. This is important because with out this or a fire point the model could not fire the weapon. The rules do not explicitly tell us where to draw line of sight when the weapon if fired in autofire mode. It seems RAI would be to draw LoS like we would in manual fire mode, or in the absence of direct instruction revert to the vehicle rules. Both result in LoS being drawn from the weapon.

 DJGietzen wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

 DJGietzen wrote:
If the weapon were firing on its own some how, you would draw line of sight from its barrels.

Do you have a rules reference for this?

Kinda. There are no rules for determining LoS or range from gun emplacements in battlefield derbies like the defense line. We have to infer those rules for ourselves and treating the firing model and the gun emplacement like an artillery unit seems to match RAI. Doing that means LoS must be drawn from both the firing model and the gun barrel of the gun emplacement while range is calculated from the gun barrel only. These guns (as far as I know) cannot autofire.

There are rules. The firing model fires it as his own weapon, so we trace LoS from the firing model like any of his other weapons.

Buildings use aspects of the vehicle Transport rules. Unless specified otherwise you should use those, which would mean LOS from the barrel for automated firing. Manual firing has already been covered.

Ok, We need to clarify exactly what we are talking about. Firing a gun that is part of a building from inside the building is firing an emplaced weapon . Firing a gun model that is off on its own and your model walks up to it to use it is firing a gun emplacement.

rigeld2 wrote:

 DJGietzen wrote:

There are rules. The firing model fires it as his own weapon, so we trace LoS from the firing model like any of his other weapons.

I'm assuming your referring to firing a gun emplacement. If so the model fires it instead of his own weapon, following the normal rules for shooting. The gun emplacement does not become his weapon. I can see how 'the normal rules for shooting' could mean to draw LoS and range from the firing model only but I can also see how the normal rules for one model firing a gun model are explained in the artillery unit rules and that means LoS is drawn from both the gun and the firing model, while range is drawn from just the gun. Truth is pg 105 is not clear on exactly how this works. There is no RAW argument that can be made with any certainty because I feel the same sentence can reasonably be interpreted in more then one way. RAI is what we are stuck with.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
One thing I am certain of, you never draw LoS from the thing on the top of the quad gun.

Page 105 is absolutely clear - the model fires the gun instead of his own weapon.

You're making a massive leap trying to bring in the artillery rules - a leap completely unsupported by actual rules.

Maybe, but it does not feel right to discount the gun emplacement model and only gain its weapon profile.

 DJGietzen wrote:
Maybe, but it does not feel right to discount the gun emplacement model and only gain its weapon profile.

It doesn't feel right that Nid ICs can't join a unit in a pod.
Feeling is irrelevant in a rules discussion.