Escalation Cheese ~ Tower of Gork (or possibly Mork)

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**Dakkamite**

Been thinking about how to best use the Ork Stompa in Escalation, and I think I may have stumbled onto something potent.

Lord of War ~ Stompa

7x Lootas, two lots of 5x Burna Boyz, each with 3x Mekboy swap-out
Big Mek, KFF (+ grot orderlies?)

Total: 1110

I didn't see anything in Escalation saying you cannot repair a Superheavy as normal. And Superheavies can carry multiple squads as long as it doesn't exceed the carry capacity. So what we have here is AV 13, 5+ cover (if not already in cover), 12 HP, Ignores shaken etc, and 10x repair rolls of 4+ to regain a hull point per turn.

It has the added side benefit of making the Big Mek's KFF bubble enormous. Bubble wrap with fearless 5+ cover grots and your good to go. It'd be pretty damn hard to put this thing down, and it'll regain an average of 5 HP per turn if you don't finish it off.

I'd use 7x Lootas (w/ 3x Mek) to take advantage of the four firepoints as you move up the field, then switch to burnas when you get close or have them jump out and toast things (as it's not an open topped transport for assaulting after disembark)

Thoughts?

Edit: Other options include put it behind an Aegis instead of a KFF, or stick it on a landing pad, and who knows what other shenanigans are in the Strongpoint Assault book

**undead flesh addict**

I really want to see this

**Grimskul**

Pretty damn good, considering the damage you do to it can be easily mitigated by the sheer amount of repair jobs it has. Even getting into close combat won't work given the strength D TCCW the Stompa totes around dealing near fatal unsavable damage to even buffed up Iron Arm Monstrous creatures or Wraithknights.

I think the only problem is that none of this protects it enough from Strength D weaponry which is the main fear of Escalation right now since it ignores both the cover save AND the invuln. from the aforementioned skypad. The Shadowsword shouldn't give it THAT much trouble but anything like the Revenant Titan and those 1,110 points are all down the drain.

**Dakkamite**

Yeah it's all down to how titans are to be implemented in the tourney scene.

Frankly the Rev will put any number of points down the drain though. If we get "Titans in, D weapons out" then this could be a formidable unit. "Titans out" obviously rules it out entirely, whilst "Titans in, D weapons in" negates pretty much anything but the Rev and counter-Rev lists

**ansacs**

Very cool. If you run this you really need to think about making a batrep for it.

**dementedwombat**

That kind of scares the heck out of me as a Tau player. I guess I could probably counter it (and most superheavies for that matter) with the Tigershark AX-1-0. But even then I'll need a few turns to bring it down (assuming I can keep air superiority and don't get the dang thing blown out of the sky) and in the meantime it's munching my army on the ground.

D strength goodness on a flier is a great thing, but one gun only goes so far.

**Dakkamite**

This will only work without D weapons. With them, theres too many Revent titans ruining everybodies fun, including Orks who take this setup. Dunno about any other D weapons, but 4x D shots easily blew it apart in one go just like it would anything else. feth that thing.

Tau are one of the few armies that I think could handle it even without D, because IIRC you guys get S10 AP1 shots that can ignore cover (railguns or something, though maybe it was nerfed now that I think about it). And it needs that cover to be survivable against mass anti-tank.

As a demo I tried pitting it against 10, 20, and 40 IG Lascannon shots per turn. It was utterly immortal against the first, immortal barring *very* bad dice against the second, and took three rounds to go down to the third.

Died reliably to one burst of 10x melta in double tap range though. I believe Space Marines get that with combi-melt sternguard or something.

**Peregrine**

Dakkamite wrote:
This will only work without D weapons. With them, theres too many Revent titans ruining everybodies fun, including Orks who take this setup.

And this thing isn't ruining everyone's fun? I mean, you just bragged about how it was impossible to kill even for an absurd number of lascannons. If you want to keep D-weapons out of the game then you can't really expect to bring this.

(At least it's not the immortal Thunderhawk that boosts its repair rolls to fix HP on a 1+, so if you don't kill it in one turn it's back to full HP.)

**Grimskul**

Peregrine wrote:
Dakkamite wrote:
This will only work without D weapons. With them, theres too many Revent titans ruining everybodies fun, including Orks who take this setup.

And this thing isn't ruining everyone's fun? I mean, you just bragged about how it was impossible to kill even for an absurd number of lascannons. If you want to keep D-weapons out of the game then you can't really expect to bring this.

(At least it's not the immortal Thunderhawk that boosts its repair rolls to fix HP on a 1+, so if you don't kill it in one turn it's back to full HP.)

Well to be fair it is banking a lot on those repair rolls (which you can botch, it being only on a 4+) and the KFF has already been nerfed this edition into only giving a 5+ cover save that many armies can mitigate with the prevalence of ignore cover weaponry and rules like Legion of the Damned with meltas, IG with the "Fire on My Target!" order, Markerlights for Tau, Eldar is self-explanatory, etc.

That plus an Ork's Stompa's shooting output is pretty limited even with its 7" S10 Ap1 blast given its BS of 2 and S10 AP1 being pretty manageable with cover saves + invuln. saves unlike an Eldar Revenant's MULTIPLE ranged D weaponry which doesn't even allow either and is absurdly overpowered against common vehicles given their abysmally low chance of surviving. It doesn't help that a Revenant Titan is not only cheaper than this build but is faster and therefore has longer range with its pulsars. The Ork Stompa at least allows the enemy to give some semblance of return fire and damage before hitting home (if at all) with its TCCW whereas a Revenant, if it gets first turn, simply annihilates entire units with no chance of survival nor response. It doesn't help that it has holo-fields that can't be negated by D-weaponry either.

**Dakkamite**

Peregrine wrote:
Dakkamite wrote:
This will only work without D weapons. With them, theres too many Revent titans ruining everybodies fun, including Orks who take this setup.

And this thing isn't ruining everyone's fun? I mean, you just bragged about how it was impossible to kill even for an absurd number of lascannons. If you want to keep D-weapons out of the game then you can't really expect to bring this.

(At least it's not the immortal Thunderhawk that boosts its repair rolls to fix HP on a 1+, so if you don't kill it in one turn it's back to full HP.)

I'm not bragging at all Perry. This thing may be resiliant to Lascannons, but it keels over real fast to cheap expendible drop melta, and I imagine mass power fists could do it in too. Anything that can strip away it's cover and/or reliably pen it will kill this 1110pt monstrosity easy.

You guys have a super with 40 carry capacity and access to actual psychic powers to buff your units - I'm sure you can dig up something thats on par or even worse

If the final tourney meta is "titans in, D weapons out" you better believe I'll be bringing this and laughing the whole time. Either I'll blow those 2+ rerolls and mass Riptide armies to pieces, or go down in a spectacular, 1110 point apocalyptic explosion - either is fine by me

**Ashiraya**

Wow, this is one awesome idea.

**Dakkamite**

Looks like this build would be allowed at Feast of Blades at least; http://www.3plusplus.net/2013/12/feast-of-blades-will-be-enacting-restrictions-and-bans/

6.) Strength D is out, Lords of Battle are in
We feel the the Lords of Battle are not overpowered on their own, the fact that they give the opponent some advantages (bonus to seize, and especially victory points) balances out their fearsome firepower and powerful endurance. Strength D, however, is too powerful. This is well-known by every apoc player (and I am one of them), and has been the case for the past two editions. (Yes, it was even overpowered back in 5th, and it was much worse then.) There is some debate still going on, but it looks like S will become S:10, ordinance, ignores cover. That still makes it very powerful, but more in line with the price paid for the superheavy as well as it's other weapon options. In addition, superheavies will have to start on the table.

Frankly though, I'd be hesitant to bring such a build to an event using the comp that they have suggested. If theres no Screamerstar to stomp, and no Riptides to crush, I'm inclined to say stuff like this should be added to the nerf pile.

**dementedwombat**

I like the way you think. not going to lie. Have fun within the limits of the rules and common decency.

And the tank mounted railgun is still 10/1. Plus Longstrike (tank mounted special character) can give it tank hunter (that should totally work on sueprheavy stuff, right).

The problem is that tau can only take 3 of them... I guess I could roll with XV9 Hazard suits if Forgeworld is allowed. 3 suits armed with 2 str 6 assault d3 (yes, roll the dice to see how many shtos you get) melta weapons each... but that's Forgeworld and I don't want to get in that argument.

Failing that it's just a matter of dropping enough melta packing crisis suits on it I guess.

**Gitsmasher**

Dakkamite wrote:
Yeah it's all down to how titans are to be implemented in the tourney scene.

Why is that?

**ductvader**

Dakkamite wrote:
Yeah it's all down to how titans are to be implemented in the tourney scene.

Feast of Blades is already talking about cutting out the D Weapons.

Below is their summary of rules to be implemented and more thoroughly thought out.

1.) The Grimoire of True Names from Codex: Daemons is banned
As of right now, this is the only true banning. We feel there is too much potential for abuse, and disagree with the effect it has on the army and the game.

2.) A few units will receive 0-1 status
For those of you who weren't around when 0-1 was a thing in codecies, means that a maximum of 1 of that unit may be taken per army. These are all units whose mass inclusion limits the potential lists in the game, and will thus be restricted. (As none of them are a problem on their own.) Rest assured that this will be a very short list, we are not interested in creating very restricted armies.

3.) Supplemental Codecies will no longer be able to ally to their base codex
There will be no more self-allying, no more cherry picking the best parts of a supplement while paying none of the costs, and no more force-org bloat from doing so.

4.) Dataslates will take an ally slot
Taking units from many, many different books and ignoring the force organization chart is too much. This change will make dataslates an interesting addition to the game, without allowing for truly bizzare armies.

5.) The number of psychic mastery levels in an army will be limited
This change will eliminate a great many power combos from the game, and will stop a player from making a lot of lucky rolls on the psychic power tables to effectively win the game before it begins.

6.) Strength D is out, Lords of Battle are in
We feel the the Lords of Battle are not overpowered on their own, the fact that they give the opponent some advantages (bonus to seize, and especially victory points) balances out their fearsome firepower and powerful endurance. Strength D, however, is too powerful. This is well-known by every apoc player (and I am one of them), and has been the case for the past two editions. (Yes, it was even overpowered back in 5th, and it was much worse then.) There is some debate still going on, but it looks like S will become S:10, ordinance, ignores cover. That still makes it very powerful, but more in line with the price paid for the superheavy as well as it's other weapon options. In addition, superheavies will have to start on the table.

7.) Super-forts are gone, or at least downsized
No AV15, it will be AV14 instead. Every individual fortification from Stronghold Assault is allowed, but the “network” choices are simply too big and unwieldy to allow for tournament play. (As a consolation, they're pretty terrible, so I think it's OK.)

8.) Dedicated transport flyers will be limited
Flyers are not the be-all end-all of this edition, but all-flyer and mostly-flyer armies change the meta in uncomfortable ways and are notoriously unfun to play against.

**CthuluIsSpy**

I like how strength D becomes S

in dakka.

It's like the strength value is mocking you.

**ductvader**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I like how strength D becomes S in dakka.

It's like the strength value is mocking you.

I don't know whether I should exalt you or point my middle finger in a general eastbound direction.

Hm
...
...
...
...have an exalt!

**BaconUprising**

ductvader wrote:
Dakkamite wrote:
Yeah it's all down to how titans are to be implemented in the tourney scene.

Feast of Blades is already talking about cutting out the D Weapons.

Below is their summary of rules to be implemented and more thoroughly thought out.

1.) The Grimoire of True Names from Codex: Daemons is banned
As of right now, this is the only true banning. We feel there is too much potential for abuse, and disagree with the effect it has on the army and the game.

2.) A few units will receive 0-1 status
For those of you who weren't around when 0-1 was a thing in codecies, means that a maximum of 1 of that unit may be taken per army. These are all units whose mass inclusion limits the potential lists in the game, and will thus be restricted. (As none of them are a problem on their own.) Rest assured that this will be a very short list, we are not interested in creating very restricted armies.

3.) Supplemental Codecies will no longer be able to ally to their base codex
There will be no more self-allying, no more cherry picking the best parts of a supplement while paying none of the costs, and no more force-org bloat from doing so.

4.) Dataslates will take an ally slot
Taking units from many, many different books and ignoring the force organization chart is too much. This change will make dataslates an interesting addition to the game, without allowing for truly bizzare armies.

5.) The number of psychic mastery levels in an army will be limited
This change will eliminate a great many power combos from the game, and will stop a player from making a lot of lucky rolls on the psychic power tables to effectively win the game before it begins.

6.) Strength D is out, Lords of Battle are in
We feel the the Lords of Battle are not overpowered on their own, the fact that they give the opponent some advantages (bonus to seize, and especially victory points) balances out their fearsome firepower and powerful endurance. Strength D, however, is too powerful. This is well-known by every apoc player (and I am one of them), and has been the case for the past two editions. (Yes, it was even overpowered back in 5th, and it was much worse then.) There is some debate still going on, but it looks like S will become S:10, ordinance, ignores cover. That still makes it very powerful, but more in line with the price paid for the superheavy as well as it's other weapon options. In addition, superheavies will have to start on the table.

7.) Super-forts are gone, or at least downsized
No AV15, it will be AV14 instead. Every individual fortification from Stronghold Assault is allowed, but the “network” choices are simply too big and unwieldy to allow for tournament play. (As a consolation, they're pretty terrible, so I think it's OK.)

8.) Dedicated transport flyers will be limited
Flyers are not the be-all end-all of this edition, but all-flyer and mostly-flyer armies change the meta in uncomfortable ways and are notoriously unfun to play against.

Grimoire being removed effectively removes all viable daemon list accept the flying circus which becomes weaker. Why not just ban 2++ rather than the whole grimoire?

**ductvader**

BaconUprising wrote:
ductvader wrote:
Dakkamite wrote:
Yeah it's all down to how titans are to be implemented in the tourney scene.

Feast of Blades is already talking about cutting out the D Weapons.

Below is their summary of rules to be implemented and more thoroughly thought out.

1.) The Grimoire of True Names from Codex: Daemons is banned
As of right now, this is the only true banning. We feel there is too much potential for abuse, and disagree with the effect it has on the army and the game.

2.) A few units will receive 0-1 status
For those of you who weren't around when 0-1 was a thing in codecies, means that a maximum of 1 of that unit may be taken per army. These are all units whose mass inclusion limits the potential lists in the game, and will thus be restricted. (As none of them are a problem on their own.) Rest assured that this will be a very short list, we are not interested in creating very restricted armies.

3.) Supplemental Codecies will no longer be able to ally to their base codex
There will be no more self-allying, no more cherry picking the best parts of a supplement while paying none of the costs, and no more force-org bloat from doing so.

4.) Dataslates will take an ally slot
Taking units from many, many different books and ignoring the force organization chart is too much. This change will make dataslates an interesting addition to the game, without allowing for truly bizzare armies.

5.) The number of psychic mastery levels in an army will be limited
This change will eliminate a great many power combos from the game, and will stop a player from making a lot of lucky rolls on the psychic power tables to effectively win the game before it begins.

6.) Strength D is out, Lords of Battle are in
We feel the the Lords of Battle are not overpowered on their own, the fact that they give the opponent some advantages (bonus to seize, and especially victory points) balances out their fearsome firepower and powerful endurance. Strength D, however, is too powerful. This is well-known by every apoc player (and I am one of them), and has been the case for the past two editions. (Yes, it was even overpowered back in 5th, and it was much worse then.) There is some debate still going on, but it looks like S will become S:10, ordinance, ignores cover. That still makes it very powerful, but more in line with the price paid for the superheavy as well as it's other weapon options. In addition, superheavies will have to start on the table.

7.) Super-forts are gone, or at least downsized
No AV15, it will be AV14 instead. Every individual fortification from Stronghold Assault is allowed, but the “network” choices are simply too big and unwieldy to allow for tournament play. (As a consolation, they're pretty terrible, so I think it's OK.)

8.) Dedicated transport flyers will be limited
Flyers are not the be-all end-all of this edition, but all-flyer and mostly-flyer armies change the meta in uncomfortable ways and are notoriously unfun to play against.

Grimoire being removed effectively removes all viable daemon list accept the flying circus which becomes weaker. Why not just ban 2++ rather than the whole grimoire?

Because GK Champions, Solitarchs, and some other characters need a 2++ to be worth their cost at all.

**BaconUprising**

And how often do you see them in the competitive scene compared to JetSeer councils and screamerstars who require it to be removed?

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Is it really worth nurfing an entire army to maintain the worth of 2 units from a single codex?

**ductvader**

BaconUprising wrote:
And how often do you see them in the competitive scene compared to JetSeer councils and screamerstars who require it to be removed?

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Is it really worth nurfing an entire army to maintain the worth of 2 units from a single codex?

I, and many others, don't really think it nerfs the whole army, nor did I ever say it needed to be removed at all.

I simply posted someone else's comments.

And I think the fact that the units in the supercompetitive scene who you constantly see with it...would be the ones who should be toned down. Feast of Blades even included the mastery level caps for seercouncil.

**BaconUprising**

Which is the exact reason I said that seer councils and screamerstars should be nerfed, by the removal of the ability to gain a 2++ save. The grimoire is not a tool to only be used to grant units a 2++, it's also used on FMC's and large hordes of daemons effectively to give them worth. Removing it actually goes so far as to lessen the viability of this build

**Corollax**

Why not just amend the Grimoire to affect only the save granted by the Daemon special rule? It already specifies that only Daemon units can be affected. A 3++, even with the ability to reroll 1's, is quite reasonable given the investment. The real problem with the Grimoire is how it interacts with Forewarning. Don't let them stack.

With that change, the only unit in Codex: Chaos Daemons to get a rerollable 2++ is Fateweaver. And if the Daemon player really wants to give Fateweaver a rerollable 2++, I'm honestly not that bothered. He spends most of his time in reserves or flying off the table, anyway.

(And if you are bothered by Fateweaver getting a 2++, remember that the bearer of the Grimoire can no longer hide in a 2++ rerollable unit. So for once, you really can just shoot the Grimoire. The unit it's hiding in is now a much more reasonable target.)

**BaconUprising**

Yeah that's what I meant but didn't say in words. It does have the effect of removing the screamerstar from comp environment but I can definitely live with that. Removing the grimoire altogether is too extreme for daemons...