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I recently decided to dig out the Eldar army which I'd built at the beginning of 6th before the new book came out and Serpent Spam was the new thing. In it I had used a lot of forge world units, specifically Warp Hunters, Hornets, and Nightwings. After picking up the new FW apoc book to catch up on the rules, and looking through the new codex, I'm not sure how the FW stack up against the updated Eldar. Hornets still seem scary since pulse lasers came down in cost, and Nightwings still seem decent compared to the Crimson Hunter, but it looks like Warp Hunters took a beating from where they were at. The most recent thread I found was from August, a short time after the new rules were released, so I'm wondering, now that people have had a chance to play, how are the Forge World Eldar units? Most specifically, do Warp Hunters and Nightwings still have a place in a solid Eldar list?

My friend uses the nightwing while i use the crimson hunter. Both have the same effect really. I prefer mine he prefers his. Its personal taste. Crimson has more killing power but less survivability and the wing has the survivability. But the crimson hunter has cool upgrades and is an aspect which i like a lot. And looks nicer.

In short they are both effective in my opinion.

Nightwings and hornets are fantastic.

Warp Hunters are niche units but their barrage mode can be incredibly useful to "barrage snipe" out special weapons and in general mess with peoples plans. Barrage is very tasty.

I would always take the Crimson Hunter over a Nightwing in the current meta - it hits harder (an extra 2 S8 AP2 shots and re-roll damage against fliers is huge) and has an extra hull point. The super shrouded hard to kill Nightwing just melts in the face of all the ignore cover weaponry that Tau and Eldar can bring to the table.

Warp Hunters went from being absolutely broken to more or less the same power level as a Prism/Night Spinner - it doesn't have the same flexibility (and oddly the Spinner is a better Terminator killer now) but its still a decent heavy support option if you want more AV12 on the table.

Hornets are probably the strongest choice now - they were great to start with and bringing the weapon point costs in line with the Eldar codex without changing their base cost makes them a great deal. You can get massed Pulse Lasers for not much more than massed Shuriken Cannons which is pretty silly.

Hornets are fantastic. Good with most any weapon option, criminally good with pulse lasers - it genuinely must be an oversight or error in the rules, pulse lasers are the same cost as, say, the categorically inferior starcannons.

I much prefer the nightwing model to the crimson hunter (bear in mind it costs a lot more) but would probably proxy it in most games. If you are taking an interceptor aircraft, the crimson hunter is much better against the really scary flyers in the game, which tend to be AV12.

Actually the nightwing is the better anti air fighter. More shots to rear armour is much better and it has a much better chance to survive to do so. It is also rather difficult to ML a unit that is outside 42" of the ML units...actually it is impossible. The only thing you have to worry about is serpents which considering you are bringing those wonderful hornets may not be an issue for very long.

along the theme of this thread, how do Firestorms stack up with the abundance of flyers we have nowadays?

Powerguy wrote:
I would always take the Crimson Hunter over a Nightwing in the current meta - it hits harder (an extra 2 S8 AP2 shots and re-roll damage against fliers is huge) and has an extra hull point. The super shrouded hard to kill Nightwing just melts in the face of all the ignore cover weaponry that Tau and Eldar can bring to the table.

I don't think the extra hull point makes a difference - the crimson hunter is av10 with a 5+ evade. It'll die faster than the nightwing because other fliers don't tend to ignore cover. I'd say the nightwing is better against any army but tau and eldar.

Cheaper too.

Well the forge world revenant titan is great, especally now with escalation

Here are my votes, in order...favorite FW unit to least favorite...leaving some out I don't know much on.

Hornet
Nightwing (flyer with staying power)
Shadow Spectres
Wasp Assault Walkers
Phoenix Bomber
Spiritseer
Firestorm (too many points for just more STR 6 spam, Int/Sky or no...just not worth it)
Warp Hunter (the nerf bat hit this thing like a baby seal)

Warp hunter got some pluses, some minuses but is still usable. Notably it lost AP2 and the 6" torrent. However, it did gain the ability to better combat MCs, which is pretty huge. Drop all 3 small blasts on a tervigon and you have a pretty good chance of ID'ing it right there. Its not as good at doing reliable damage anymore, but its still an effective weapon. Also, you get both S7 and the haywire effect vs vehicles, meaning you are effective vs almost all types of vehicles. 8/10.

Nightwing is still the king of the sky. MUCH better than the codex fliers. Vector dancer means you are mathematically guaranteed rear armor the turn they come on vs any other flier. 6xS6+ 2x S8 is pretty effective at knocking out fliers, but it can also double as anti-anything weapons also. The ability to get 2+ saves with any tall ruin or just 2+ jink means its tough as nails. Don't like the model, but i made my own. 10/10

Hornets are better war walkers in just about every way. Similar damage output, AV11, faster, and in the much less contested FA slot. 8/10


I'm waiting for the "Soon(tm) to come" update for IA11 corsairs. I built most of an army for them but then the eldar codex came out while i was in the middle of painting and they have sat on the shelf since (well, except for the corsair prince, he shows up with hilarious ally lists).

Col. Dash wrote:
along the theme of this thread, how do Firestorms stack up with the abundance of flyers we have nowadays?

I have never personally used them , so someone else may be able to chime in better, they don't really look that impressive to me. Its 180 pts for what is essentially a Falcon with 6 str 6 TL sky fire / interceptor shots instead of its normal turret. While this means that you can actually hit your targets, as others have mentioned most of the scary flyers are AV 12. At least with a Nightwing like Zephoid pointed out you can set your self up for a read armor shot and make those Shuriken Cannons useful, plus it has two bright lances. A Firestorm is going to have to glance things like Vendettas and Storm Ravens to death. Its also competing for a slot with better choices, and does a job that can be assigned elsewhere more effectively and cheaper (Wave Serpents, 10 Warp Spiders, Crimson Hunters / Night Wings, etc all can do the same job, come out to around the same points or cheaper, can take on over targets, and aren't HS units).

Its good to hear that Warp Hunters are still usable. Back when the FW Apoc book first came out, everyone was crying that their days were up. I'm kind of in the same boat with you Zephpoid as well, as far as Corsairs go. I built my list around Eldar with Corsair Allies, and have no serpents whatsoever. I guess I'll be picking up a few now.

Firestorms are pretty bad. mef989 has it about spot on as they S6 front and side armour shots are not great and the unit just fails against it's competition. They look cool though.

Warp Hunter got nerfed real bad. Have not had the guts to try one since then. Fire Prism seems a better deal these days.

Hornets are nearly always in my list. They were before the point reduction but now crazy good. Cheaper weapons, outflank AND acute sense? Sure!

Nightwing is better than a Crimson Hunter and cheaper.

Shadow Specters are a very different animal now and I will need to run some tests before coming with a conclusion. I have 2 lists to run with them with different roles.

Firestorm is horrible. Make it cheaper, much cheaper and maybe someone will look at it.

Wraithseer is still good. Will be re-tested.

Phoenix Bomber is expensive but crazy good. Love it.

What about the corsairs?

The Corsairs themselves haven't been updated yet AFAIK.
5 dudes with a heavy weapon are still ok, but a unit of 10 jetpackers have lost a bit of shine compared to Dire Avengers and Guardians due to their 6th ed codex buffs.

 Nivoglibina wrote:
The Corsairs themselves haven't been updated yet AFAIK.
5 dudes with a heavy weapon are still ok, but a unit of 10 jetpackers have lost a bit of shine compared to Dire Avengers and Guardians due to their 6th ed codex buffs.

Yeah the Corsairs do not have Battle Focus.

Though the portal trick with some Wraithguards and D-Scythe has some potential or maybe 10 Wraithblades