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Made in us
Battlefield Tourist




MN (Currently in WY)

This should get some people talking....

http://america.aljazeera.com/opinions/2013/12/service-industryworkerslaborinequality.html


At least one class of American workers is having a much harder time today than a decade ago, than during the Great Depression and than a century ago: servants.

The reason for this, surprisingly enough, is outsourcing. Let me explain.

Prosperous American families have adopted the same approach to wages for servants as big successful companies, hiring freelance outside contractors for all sorts of functions — from child care and handyman chores to gardening and cleaning work — to reduce costs.

Instead of live-in servants, who were common in prosperous U.S. households before World War II, better-off families now outsource the family cook, maid and nanny. It is part of a problem in developed countries around the globe that is getting more attention worldwide than in the U.S.

We are falling backward in America, back to the Gilded Age conditions of a century and more ago when a few fortunate souls grew fabulously rich while a quarter of families had to take in boarders to make ends meet. Only back then, elites gave their servants a better deal.

Thorstein Veblen, in his classic 1899 book, “The Theory of the Leisure Class,” observed that “the need of vicarious leisure, or conspicuous consumption of service, is a dominant incentive to the keeping of servants.” Nowadays, servants are just as important to elites, except that they are conspicuous in their competition to avoid paying servants decent wages.

In 1930, near the start of the Great Depression, 1 in 45 urban American families had live-in servants, economist George Stigler, who later won the Nobel Prize in economics, reported in his 1946 study of servants.

In a prescient line relevant to today’s growing chasm between the richest and the rest of society, Stigler noted that “a society with relatively many families at both ends of the income scale would provide both a large supply of servants and a large demand” for them.

Room and board
That is just what the United States has today — a top 10 percent doing well (the top 1/10th of 1 percent exceptionally so), while the bottom third remains desperate for work. But outsourcing has changed circumstances for the worse for those who would do a servant’s work today.

Consider the family cook. Many family cooks now work at family restaurants and fast-food joints. This means that instead of having to meet a weekly payroll, families can hire a cook only as needed.

A household cook typically earned $10 a week in 1910, century-old books on the etiquette of hiring servants show. That is $235 per week in today’s money, while the federal minimum wage for 40 hours comes to $290 a week.

At first blush, that looks like a real raise of $55 a week, or nearly a 25 percent increase in pay. But in fact, the 2013 minimum-wage cook is much worse off than the 1910 cook. Here’s why:

•The 1910 cook earned tax-free pay, while 2013 cook pays 7.65 percent of his or her income in Social Security taxes as well as income taxes on more than a third of his pay, assuming full-time work every week of the year. For a single person, that’s about $29 of that $55 raise deducted for taxes.
•Unless he can walk to work, today’s outsourced family cook must cover commuting costs. A monthly transit pass costs $75 in Los Angeles, $95 in Atlanta and $112 in New York City, so bus fare alone runs $17 to $27 a week, eating up a third to almost half of the seeming increase in pay, making the apparent raise pretty much vanish.
•The 1910 cook got room and board, while the 2013 cook must provide his or her own living space and food.
More than half of fast-food workers are on some form of welfare, labor economists at the University of California at Berkeley and the University of Illinois reported in October after analyzing government economic statistics.

Data on domestic workers is scant because Congress excludes them from both regular data gathering by the Bureau of Labor Statistics and laws giving workers rights to rest periods and collective bargaining.

Nevertheless, what we do know is troubling. These days, 60 percent of domestic workers spend half their income just on housing, and a fifth run out of food each month.

A German study found that in New York City, domestic workers’ pay ranges broadly, from an illegal $1.43 to $40 an hour, with a quarter of workers earning less than the legal minimum wage. The U.S. median pay for domestic servants was estimated at $10 an hour.

How to tip your dog walker
As the nation’s largest private employer, Walmart exerts a major influence on pay, affecting not just its own workers but also those of its competitors and other businesses seeking workers with similar skills. Walmart’s low pay is a major factor in the hardships of outsourced servants like the modern family cook.

Sylvia Allegretto, an economist with the Center on Wage and Employment Dynamics at U.C. Berkeley, used Federal Reserve data to compare the fortunes of the many and the six richest members of the Walton family, which controls Walmart.

In 2007 those six family members enjoyed a net worth equal to that of the poorest 30.5 percent of Americans, Allegretto calculated. Three years later, in 2010, the Walton wealth equaled that of the poorest 41.5 percent of Americans as the Waltons grew richer and the vast majority of Americans lost ground during the Great Recession.

The workers of another big employer, McDonald’s, receive $1.2 billion annually in welfare benefits. Despite the struggles they face, the company recently posted on an employee website advice on how much to tip their own servants, including au pairs and dog walkers. The company erased the advisory after CNBC reported on it, but the posting revealed how out of touch executives are with the reality in their restaurants.

The plight of domestic workers in an era of growing inequality and falling incomes for many has been taken up by the United Nation’s International Labor Organization, which has equal representation from workers, employers and governments.

ILO Convention 189 calls for domestic workers to have the same basic rights as other workers, including reasonable hours, rest periods and the right to organize.

So far, 10 countries have adopted the convention, and 13 others are in the process of adopting it or say they plan do so, but the United States is not among them.

The Thanksgiving-week demonstrations outside fast-food restaurants and Walmart stores signal a growing popular movement to improve the lot of the servant class in America. The government subsidies to employers who pay less than a living wage are attracting attention from the anti-tax crowd, though not enough so far to make a clean break from major employers like the Waltons and the Koch brothers, who enjoy massive government subsidies both directly and indirectly through benefits that subsidize lower-paid workers.

In California, Gov. Jerry Brown vetoed a bill last year requiring overtime pay and breaks for meals and rest, saying it would result in fewer domestic workers. Two months ago he signed a bill that required only overtime pay, which is difficult to enforce.

It is a start in the right direction, but just getting servants back to the livelihood they earned a century ago remains a distant goal.



Also, Krugman's thoughts on it....

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/12/11/upstairs-downstairs-outside/?_r=0


Via Mark Thoma, David Cay Johnston has a great piece noting that today’s service economy is in many ways like the Edwardian-era economy in which a small number of wealthy people employed a large number of servants — except that we tend to outsource the service, relying on restaurants and cleaning services instead of cooks and maids. And our outsourced servants are, he notes, arguably paid and treated worse than the in-house servants of the past, even in absolute terms — let alone relative to per capita GDP.

It’s a novel and useful way to think about just how unequal our society has grown.



Are you not entertained?


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Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

Whats awesome is that this is what happens when you have open borders. Viva La Raza.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

 Frazzled wrote:
Whats awesome is that this is what happens when you have open borders. Viva La Raza.

And corporations getting favoritism from the government.

Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!


 
   
Made in us
Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau




USA

And other bad things that are bad that we don't like!

   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

 LordofHats wrote:
And other bad things that are bad that we don't like!

Wait... who's bad?


Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!


 
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

 Frazzled wrote:
Whats awesome is that this is what happens when you have open borders.
Skipping right past the "open border" thing, I don't think immigration can be blamed for the exploitation of immigrants. Just because people are vulnerable to exploitation does not mean that they must inevitably be exploited.

   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

Manchu wrote:
 Frazzled wrote:
Whats awesome is that this is what happens when you have open borders.
Skipping right past the "open border" thing, I don't think immigration can be blamed for the exploitation of immigrants. Just because people are vulnerable to exploitation does not mean that they must inevitably be exploited.


1.If they were here legally they would have greater recourse to the laws.
2.Unfettered illegal immigration by itself is meh, but the absolute amount of illegal immigration, particularly in the last 30 years makes this possible.

You want to raise wages for low skilled workers? Shut the border.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in ca
Lieutenant Colonel






The obvious solution is to simply replace all misdemeanor/minor crimes prison sentences with sentences forcing the offenders to be the victims butler.



 
   
Made in us
Kid_Kyoto






Probably work

Manchu wrote:
Just because people are vulnerable to exploitation does not mean that they must inevitably be exploited.


I think one of the tenets of absolute capitalism is contrary to that statement.

Assume all my mathhammer comes from here: https://github.com/daed/mathhammer 
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

 daedalus wrote:
Manchu wrote:
Just because people are vulnerable to exploitation does not mean that they must inevitably be exploited.
I think one of the tenets of absolute capitalism is contrary to that statement.
I agree but I did not come here in defense of "absolute capitalism."

   
Made in us
Kid_Kyoto






Probably work

Fair enough. I was not intentionally accusing you of either.

I suppose it was my round-about way of saying, "Unfortunately, a lot of people do not agree."

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/12 20:20:22


Assume all my mathhammer comes from here: https://github.com/daed/mathhammer 
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

 Frazzled wrote:
1.If they were here legally they would have greater recourse to the laws.
2.Unfettered illegal immigration by itself is meh, but the absolute amount of illegal immigration, particularly in the last 30 years makes this possible.
One reason that there has been so much undocumented immigration and no serious attempts at immigration reform (aside from George W. Bush's attempt, which the GOP sunk) is because rich people have a strong interest in exploiting poor people. Poor people are even easier to exploit when they have even more limited recourse to civil society, including courts.

   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

Manchu wrote:
 Frazzled wrote:
1.If they were here legally they would have greater recourse to the laws.
2.Unfettered illegal immigration by itself is meh, but the absolute amount of illegal immigration, particularly in the last 30 years makes this possible.
One reason that there has been so much undocumented immigration and no serious attempts at immigration reform (aside from George W. Bush's attempt, which the GOP sunk) is because rich people have a strong interest in exploiting poor people.

This is true for both the Repubs and Democrats. Also they are nice pool of potential voters.

Poor people are even easier to exploit when they have even more limited recourse to civil society, including courts.

Agreed and in a big way.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/12 20:34:01


-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in jp
[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer






Somewhere in south-central England.

Not sure why immigrants make it impossible to pass a minimum wage law.

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

Not seeing how that is relevant?
Other then many aren't paid minimum wage to begin with. Its a cash economy.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in jp
[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer






Somewhere in south-central England.

Not seeing how your comment is relevant to my comment.

Why do immigrants make it impossible to pass a minimum wage law?

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Not seeing how your comment is relevant to my comment.

Why do immigrants make it impossible to pass a minimum wage law?


They don't. And? Are you thinking that maids etc in the US are actually paid such that it means anything is the question you should be asking.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in au
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





 Frazzled wrote:
Whats awesome is that this is what happens when you have open borders. Viva La Raza.


Read the article. It isn't talking about domestic servants of the kind that made you automatically think 'Mexican'. The very clever insight in the article is in thinking of corner store dry cleaning and restaurants as just a modern variation of servants - at the end of the day they're just services being done for you... and so comparing the living conditions of these servants is an interesting thought experiment that tells us one thing - the people working the most mundane jobs have not benefited at all from the last hundred years of economic growth.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 whembly wrote:
And corporations getting favoritism from the government.


That's nothing to do with anything in this story. That farm subsidies or no-bid contracts might allow some companies to profiteer changes nothing about whether domestic service is better paid today than it was 100 years ago.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Frazzled wrote:
You want to raise wages for low skilled workers? Shut the border.


As I've tried to explain before, economic interactions are a lot more complex than the simple 'more labour supply means cheaper labour" demand and supply curve you're trying to argue for there.

I agree with the point that workers become easier to exploit when they have no legal recourse, but that's a mile from the idea that the borders need to be shut. Legal migration is a great boon to the economy, it brings not only growth, but a great deal of social mobility as new markets are created that people access to move up the socio-economic ladder.

Large amounts of migration is almost always to considerable growth in income, while periods of non-migration are generally tied to stagnation.

EDIT
Oh, and if you want to see why labour has declined as a percentage of total income in the developed world, this is a good place to start.
http://www.brookings.edu/~/media/Projects/BPEA/Fall%202013/2013b%20elsby%20labor%20share.pdf

If you don't want to read it (and fair enough, it's a fair old slog) it concludes that the primary driver of the decline of labour comes from companies accessing cheap labour in China and India. Note that it doesn't even talk about the presence of cheap undocumented labour in the US (because that wouldn't make any sense, when labour has decline in value across all developed countries, and most have no issue with undocumented migrants). Instead it just notes that when you can access much cheaper labour overseas, well then sure local labour is going to lose bargaining power.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2013/12/13 08:26:08


“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”

Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. 
   
Made in us
Battlefield Tourist




MN (Currently in WY)

How did this thread get on Immigration?

The idea is that the new "service economy" is no different than the old "Servant Economy" of Edwardian England except that the servants are now outsourced instead of inhouse.

Therefore, the theory is most worjers are still living inthe Gilded Age with a different finish, so maybe we can call it the Gilted Age instead?

Support Blood and Spectacles Publishing:
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Made in jp
[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer






Somewhere in south-central England.

The evil truth is that most workers -- nearly everyone except the very rich, basically -- saw their conditions improve dramatically between the end of the Edwardian era (end of WW1) and the early-mid 1970s.

Then it started to go into reverse.


I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
Made in us
Battlefield Tourist




MN (Currently in WY)

 Kilkrazy wrote:
The evil truth is that most workers -- nearly everyone except the very rich, basically -- saw their conditions improve dramatically between the end of the Edwardian era (end of WW1) and the early-mid 1970s.

Then it started to go into reverse.



Shhhh, no one is suppose to acknowledge that.

Everything is fine. Everyone go about your business. Nothing to see here. Move along.

Support Blood and Spectacles Publishing:
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Made in us
Rogue Daemonhunter fueled by Chaos






Toledo, OH

 Kilkrazy wrote:
The evil truth is that most workers -- nearly everyone except the very rich, basically -- saw their conditions improve dramatically between the end of the Edwardian era (end of WW1) and the early-mid 1970s.

Then it started to go into reverse.


There's the broader argument that the above, while true, is only true of developed economies. Meaning, workers in Europe and America have lost ground, but workers in Brazil, India, and China are much better off then they were 100 years ago.

The idea of a large and prosperous middle class is relatively new, and likely due more to a long term market ineffeciency than anything else.
   
 
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