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I just played a game with my buddy we both were playing what most would call chaos and Tau cheese list, I had my heldrakes and he had his rip tides. With out making this too list heavy he was playing his tau like every one hates hiding behind the defense line and having rip tides do their thing. I deep struck the great unclean one and a few other units behind his line and over the game gave him a proper wood shed beat down. I got there by making deep strike rolls , and stayed alive by making lots of saves vs his never ending shots. We have had this game many times and neither one of us has ever had a streak of wins as we both have tons of cheese on both sides and no matter the cheese the game is still down to dice .

Well if your comment is that when two equal armies face each other it comes down to dice, that would seem the proper thing.

It's more or less that every army right now has cheese of some type and you still can't just cheese your way to a total victory , you still gotta roll the die.

Getoffmylawn wrote:
It's more or less that every army right now has cheese of some type and you still can't just cheese your way to a total victory , you still gotta roll the die.

... and that's a bad thing? I'm not sure what point you are trying to make.

Are you saying that a dice game has random elements to it? Because that seems to be self evident logic.

 Purifier wrote:

... and that's a bad thing? I'm not sure what point you are trying to make.

Are you saying that a dice game has random elements to it? Because that seems to be self evident logic.

...Or is he implying that the game has a too big emphasis on random element? It truly annoys me deeply sometimes to lose just because I rolled 10+ in ALL Ld checks, and 1:s for 70% of the armour saves, even though I've got a nice and working list - and the opponent is beatable with honourable ways.

That's crappy luck. But that's also life. It won't continue perpetually. Even I have had pretty good and priceless moments.

Where are the mathtards at saying this guy rolled higher than average?

 Gitsmasher wrote:
Where are the mathtards at saying this guy rolled higher than average?

True mathtards wouldn't say that, as they don't have any information to support that.

I guess the over thing I was getting at is you can build a total cheese list and have all the 6th shooty rules working for you and still not win ever time. The game still comes down to rolling dice and that's why most of us still play and it feels good when someone plays a cheese list and still can't win every time .

An Imperial Guardsman could survive two dozen Strength D blasts. He could survive long enough to reach the offending Super-Heavy and kill it with a meltagun.

Yes, it all comes down to dice... sort of. This doesn't mean that there aren't broken lists or that "cheese" is less relevant; that re-rollable 2++ deathstar laughs at your implications of probability. Probability is tweaked by stats and special rules. The fact that, however unlikely, you might "get lucky" and win in an otherwise-hopeless situation isn't why most people play, I imagine.

I'm still lost as to your actual point, Getoffmylawn. It's a dice game, that's evident the moment you notice a d6 is required to play it.

The nature of dice is that any game can go good or bad based on rolls. My assault squad taking 80 lasgun hits this week and not losing even one model, and then losing all 10 within a round later in the game, was all due to dice.

You can't say that everything comes down to dice though, it's simply not true. And getting slaughtered 5 times out of 6, but then barely winning the 6th game, does NOT make people feel better, sorry bud.

So...I don't get what you're even trying to say.