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I don't own a super-heavy. I probably won't for a while, because of prohibitive costs. However, several of my clubmates DO, and they're chomping at the bit to try them out. (This week I saw a Squiggoth take on Sisters...it was great to watch, and the SoB didn't do poorly.)

The Escalation has some balancing in the form of special rules/rolls for when one player has a Lord of War and the other doesn't (like it will be in my case). One of these is a special Warlord table, making the LoW (potentially) much easier to kill. HOWEVER, named HQs already have predetermined Warlord Traits. I've read the Escalation rules briefly, and am pretty sure that a HQ with a predetermined Trait cannot roll on the Escalation table, thus severely punishing the player who has a named HQ but no LoW.

I'd like some folk to back me up, though. Am I reading this correctly? Please also indicate your opinion on the poll.

its unfortunately a side effect of taking the SC over a generic warlord.

No RAW. If I brought the Superheavy, I will magnanimously allow my opponent to use the LoW Warlord table, especially if it would make him feel better about me bringing a superheavy. It makes sense to me, since the LoW table is designed to be penalizing me for bringing the choice to the table.

For a tournament, however, I'd have to say that Special Characters canNOT sacrifice their dedicated power for a roll. I'd have to compare wording on the (I think one or two?) characters who can CHOOSE their Warlord trait.

I'm actually quite surprised at the poll results thus far. I voted "No RAW, Yes HIWPI," for obvious, selfish reasons (as stated in my OP), even though my Warlord pretty much NEVER has a predetermined Trait (since I play GK), and I'll therefore get to roll on the LoW Table.
However, I was hoping that those folk who are nasty enough to bring a D weapon to a friendly game would be kind-hearted enough to allow some leeway for their opponent.
Guess I was wrong :/
Of course, it's also a bit nasty of me to judge people negatively for following the RAW when it's so clear. RAW just seems like an oversight to me, in this case. GW SHOULD HAVE allowed Warlords with predetermined traits to roll on the LoW table.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jimsolo wrote:
I'd have to compare wording on the (I think one or two?) characters who can CHOOSE their Warlord trait.

As an aside, I've never run into this before. What book(s) are these SC in?

There's one in the Dark Angels 'dex, yeah? And another I thought, although I could be mistaken on that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Looking through my books, I had an interesting question.

If your Warlord is Asurmen (he gets a d3 traits from the Eldar book instead of one), does he lose all d3 to roll on the Escalation Warlord table, or only one of the d3?

Edit: Found it. Azrael, in the Dark Angels codex. He has "no need to roll," but instead chooses his own trait.

 Elric Greywolf wrote:
I'm actually quite surprised at the poll results thus far. I voted "No RAW, Yes HIWPI," for obvious, selfish reasons (as stated in my OP), even though my Warlord pretty much NEVER has a predetermined Trait (since I play GK), and I'll therefore get to roll on the LoW Table.
However, I was hoping that those folk who are nasty enough to bring a D weapon to a friendly game would be kind-hearted enough to allow some leeway for their opponent.
Guess I was wrong :/
Of course, it's also a bit nasty of me to judge people negatively for following the RAW when it's so clear. RAW just seems like an oversight to me, in this case. GW SHOULD HAVE allowed Warlords with predetermined traits to roll on the LoW table.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jimsolo wrote:
I'd have to compare wording on the (I think one or two?) characters who can CHOOSE their Warlord trait.

As an aside, I've never run into this before. What book(s) are these SC in?

I think letting your warlord have trait then the one they were assigned is tantamount to fielding a Dark Angles Land Raider with hurricane bolters that have plasma guns instead of bolt guns.

Azreal, who can pick a warlord trait, is stuck with the dark angels war lord traits. He can never pick or roll from a different table.

 Elric Greywolf wrote:
I'm actually quite surprised at the poll results thus far. I voted "No RAW, Yes HIWPI," for obvious, selfish reasons (as stated in my OP), even though my Warlord pretty much NEVER has a predetermined Trait (since I play GK), and I'll therefore get to roll on the LoW Table.
However, I was hoping that those folk who are nasty enough to bring a D weapon to a friendly game would be kind-hearted enough to allow some leeway for their opponent.
Guess I was wrong :/
Of course, it's also a bit nasty of me to judge people negatively for following the RAW when it's so clear. RAW just seems like an oversight to me, in this case. GW SHOULD HAVE allowed Warlords with predetermined traits to roll on the LoW table.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jimsolo wrote:
I'd have to compare wording on the (I think one or two?) characters who can CHOOSE their Warlord trait.

As an aside, I've never run into this before. What book(s) are these SC in?

the reason is likely that not taking the trait that they are assigned is not exactly fluffy for the character and would be altering the profile of the special character whose SR's have been pre-determined based on their points costs.

most SC's do a lot of funky things as is so getting them to also hamper LoW would take a tactical choice out and just make it a no brainer.

as a space marine player, my choice in SC would remain unchanged as I am already geared up to taking on the super heavies and look forward to the additional VP's for stripping points off them, I have a generic captain in the list too but I would never use him as the warlord even though he is harder than the SC, simply because the benefit's I receive with having the SC as my warlord outweigh the potential of death via ID.

 Jimsolo wrote:
There's one in the Dark Angels 'dex, yeah? And another I thought, although I could be mistaken on that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Looking through my books, I had an interesting question.

If your Warlord is Asurmen (he gets a d3 traits from the Eldar book instead of one), does he lose all d3 to roll on the Escalation Warlord table, or only one of the d3?

Edit: Found it. Azrael, in the Dark Angels codex. He has "no need to roll," but instead chooses his own trait.

ASURMEN gets d3 from eldar codex look at his page

*shrug* you asked how we'd play it. I personally tend to stick as close as possible to the rules since my gaming group is a fractious bunch (including myself in that), and it's the easiest thing to get everyone to agree on.

We have a house rule or two which comes up from time to time, but getting everyone to agree it is necessary can be quite a drawn-out diplomatic process.

 hiveof_chimera wrote:

 Jimsolo wrote:
There's one in the Dark Angels 'dex, yeah? And another I thought, although I could be mistaken on that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Looking through my books, I had an interesting question.

If your Warlord is Asurmen (he gets a d3 traits from the Eldar book instead of one), does he lose all d3 to roll on the Escalation Warlord table, or only one of the d3?

Edit: Found it. Azrael, in the Dark Angels codex. He has "no need to roll," but instead chooses his own trait.

ASURMEN gets d3 from eldar codex look at his page

Yes, Jimsolo said exactly that; in the text you quoted.

Thanks Kel!

RAW, none of the special characters with an assigned warlord trait can use the escalation table. The wording on Azrael's goes that way, too.

Still wondering how Asurmen interacts with that. He DOES roll (a d3 times, in fact). So can he use the Escalation table, and if so, how many Eldar traits does he lose?

 Jimsolo wrote:
Thanks Kel!

RAW, none of the special characters with an assigned warlord trait can use the escalation table. The wording on Azrael's goes that way, too.

Still wondering how Asurmen interacts with that. He DOES roll (a d3 times, in fact). So can he use the Escalation table, and if so, how many Eldar traits does he lose?

"(paraphrasing the pertinent bits)Always D3 from the Eldar Table"; that seems that he only gets to roll on the eldar table(No BRB Tables, and thus no Escalation Table) So there is no question left for losses of the only table he can choose from.

Generally SCs get no rolls on the Escalation Table.

I voted No for Both RAW and HIWPI; but I would discuss it with my opponent(especially if I brought a LoW), and with agreement would house rule a Roll for SCs(1 escalation the remainder Eldar in the case of Asurmen, and a choice for Azrael).

Except that the Escalation table specifically allows you to sacrifice one of your normal Warlord trait rolls to roll on it instead. (Or am I wrong on that? Only have second hand information here.)

I agree most SCs aren't going to get it (although, after looking, a surprising number are), but it seems pretty straightforward to me that Asurmen could sack one of his rolls on the Eldar table for an Escalation trait instead.

I will absolutely double Check that right now.

You are correct, and it would seem Asurmen gets all d3 Eldar, or or D3 escalation because the escalation rules exchange the table.

 Kommissar Kel wrote:

 hiveof_chimera wrote:

 Jimsolo wrote:
There's one in the Dark Angels 'dex, yeah? And another I thought, although I could be mistaken on that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Looking through my books, I had an interesting question.

If your Warlord is Asurmen (he gets a d3 traits from the Eldar book instead of one), does he lose all d3 to roll on the Escalation Warlord table, or only one of the d3?

Edit: Found it. Azrael, in the Dark Angels codex. He has "no need to roll," but instead chooses his own trait.

ASURMEN gets d3 from eldar codex look at his page

Yes, Jimsolo said exactly that; in the text you quoted.

Yes, Jimsolo said exactly that; In the text you quoted.