Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

A lot of people complain about the tau not being grimdark enough, but I just want to say from the point of view of a guardsman they have the potential to be terrifying. Think about it, You are just a normal guardsmen ptroling some backwoods planet in the middle of nowhere, it is almost nightfall and the sun is setting, then rising up, silowetted is a riptide, bigger than anything your entire platoon has, and opening fire down on you and your fellow guardsmen while these one of these strange creatures screams that your death will be for the greater good, as hyper accurate gunfire picks off men left and right.

Anyway on to the topic at hand, how would you make the tau more grimdark, or are they do you think they are just misused?

To any mods: Should this be in dakka fic? not entirely sure...

 thepowerfulwill wrote:
A lot of people complain about the tau not being grimdark enough, but I just want to say from the point of view of a guardsman they have the potential to be terrifying. Think about it, You are just a normal guardsmen ptroling some backwoods planet in the middle of nowhere, it is almost nightfall and the sun is setting, then rising up, silowetted is a riptide, bigger than anything your entire platoon has, and opening fire down on you and your fellow guardsmen while these one of these strange creatures screams that your death will be for the greater good, as hyper accurate gunfire picks off men left and right.

Anyway on to the topic at hand, how would you make the tau more grimdark, or are they do you think they are just misused?

To any mods: Should this be in dakka fic? not entirely sure...

The problem with that scenario is that an enemy's technological superiority is a level of terror that is conceivable in reality. Most other factions in 40k induce much more instinctive feelings of dread, but turned up to 11. Fear of being eaten alive, being torn apart, being tortured, seemingly undead enemies, etc. The Tau, in comparison, seem rather tame. But I think they get a bad rap for that, because there isn't a whole lot of grimdark about the Eldar either to be honest. They're really on the same tier as the Tau in that regard, but I rarely if ever see anyone complain about them. I think the Tau fit just because they are different.

Your example is one of mortal fear; something not distinct from what one would experience when being stalked by a big cat or thinking they say a ghost. That isn't necessarily grimdark. We throw 'grimdark' around all the time, but there really isn't a concrete definition, just whatever a player/reader is affected by.
Personally, grimdark is really established by a sense of helplessness, of inevitability. Its your scenario, except the platoon of guardsmen know that if they survive this wave of attackers, there will be another one just behind it, and another behind that, and so forth. Its knowing that not only will that demon rip your head off, but it'll also slamdance your soul to Cannibal Corpse for all eternity. The Tau lack that edge, in my opinion. They lack the menace of Chaos undivided, of a gigantic hive fleet or a united Waagh! of unheard of proportions. The final touch of grimdark, however, is a faint ray of hope. Maybe some Space Marines will come crashing down on jump packs and save that squad of guardsmen from certain doom. Maybe the efforts of Commissar Yarrick will prevent Gazghkull from uniting the Orks, and maybe there *is* no giantsupermega hive fleet of 'nids just outside the galaxy. Where fluff goes sour is when they leave out that ray of hope, which is what they did with the Necrons. Why bother when the 'Crons are biggerfasterstrongermorenumerous and all around better?
I think the Tau need lose the kumbaya flavor of all races are welcome and we're just building a nice intergalactic society in which everyone wins. What really happens to human after long exposure to alien society? What are the Ethereals really up to? Are they manipulating human colonist through pheromones? How are the Tau a serious threat to the Imperium? To me the Tau don't have that much of a menace to them. They seem too reasonable and rational; willing to sign a treaty and stand down so everyone can benefit economically. In my grimdark universe, I'll pass on that. Bring on the bloodthirsters and Inquistion, please.

^^^ I'ma just say this is my biggest gripe with "grimdark". They forget that faint ray of hope. Not all fluff needs it, but it should be mentioned, it should be hoped through it all that maybe just maybe they aren't fethed. And that hope gets shattered yet another one exists a slimmer maybe this time it will succeed, maybe next time it will fail but it is always there.

Tau have the hintings of grimdark but not enough blatant grimdark it seems and many advertise the non-Orwellian part and focus on the greater good and the allied xenos part.

I like the tau's seemingly lack of grimdark. You look at them in most lights and they're the good guys! But then when you look through the propaganda and you realize how insidious the tau, particularly ethereals are. They release pheromones naturally that can essentially make mind control over their populations, there's nothing the tau won't do to save an ethereal and better yet the tau mantra "for the greater good" is their justification for mass slaughter and planetary invasions. Then tack on the tau "allies" who are told that they are a valuable part of expanding the greater good, that they are equals yet when battle comes about they send kroot out into the open to be bullet sponges and vespid can take insanely dangerous missions while the fire cast simply sits back and lines up a shot for when the last kroot falls. Lastly look at humans who join the tau empire, not even second class citizens and all their life choices are made by the ethereal caste. There is no freedom in tau, just blissful enslavement, and that is grimdark.

Read the short story ''Unity'' from Fear the Alien anthology.
Dawn of War: Dark Crusade: The Tau campaign isn't canon, but they send the IG survivors to reeducation camps and sterilize the human population after they take over the planet.
Not to mention the Ethereal mind control conspiracy...

The Tau may have the ''best'' living conditions in the 40k universe, but they are far from being the good guys.

I would tend to view Tau as a pretty grimdark faction. The thing is that whereas the Dark Eldar are sadists, the Tyranids are extragalactic horrors and the Imperium is a obvious dystopia, in the case of the Tau it is a lot more subtle. Lack of free will, an attitude of "With or against" and a willingness to kill anything that doesn't join the greater good. Add to this selective breeding, and the fact that propaganda is used probably just as extensively as it is in the Imperium. I would tend to suggest, actually, that the Tau empire is probably on the same path as the Imperium, and will likely end up similar to them in the long run.

As a side note though, Crysis suits might not inspire instinctual terror but it would still be terrifying to fight them. Highly mobile, heavily armoured, Heavy weaponry and it's also really big..
And then the Riptide was born....

I think one thing that hasnt been mentioned yet but is a very good point, is that in ANY other setting the tau would definitely be the "bad guys" however, because of just how terrible the 40k Universe is they actually become the "good guys" just because the spectrum of evil is so great they happen to be the lightest shade of grey.

They're just as bad or worse than the "evil" factions in history and most sci-fi settings, but because of the tilt that's presented they become good.

Just this reason alone gives the tau a very interesting position in the setting of 40k. The position of the lesser evil that you would never choose for yourself but are forced to for fear of something worse

Hexwolf wrote:
. I would tend to suggest, actually, that the Tau empire is probably on the same path as the Imperium, and will likely end up similar to them in the long run.

This is a very good point too

As mentioned before if they bring the whole "Ethereal caste controls the population through pheramones and mind control" plot more to a head they would seem awfully less like "good guys". This is also hinted at with their Vespid allies. The two races were unable to work together until the "communicator helmets" were given to the Vespid to allow for communication, when it could actually be controlling them. Also with the Farsight Enclaves finally breaking free of the Ethereal control and realizing the truth.

Think if they go more down this route it will help with "grimdark"ing the Tau. Unfortunately I feel GW is steering towards more traditional "good guys" & "bad guys" for main stream appeal..

Exactly my thoughts with the Vespid, and of the Tau in general.

Also, people need to remember that one of the Tau's most skilled military commanders wields a giant alien (maybe Necrontyr, maybe not) blade that sucks the life out of his opponents and adds it to his own, making him unnaturally long-lived, especially for a Tau.

Even their own allies, the Kroot, secretly sneak out on mercenary contracts of the own, because the Greater Good is destroying their culture and how they add variety to their gene-pool.

I think one thing that hasnt been mentioned yet but is a very good point, is that in ANY other setting the tau would definitely be the "bad guys" however, because of just how terrible the 40k Universe is they actually become the "good guys" just because the spectrum of evil is so great they happen to be the lightest shade of grey.

Exactly. In other hard-sci fi settings their role would be some sort of Orwellian "Corporation", where everyone is "encouraged" to work for the betterment of all. People would be all over fielding squads of "Rebels" going up against the totalitarian "Tau Corporation" and their faceless robotic war-suits, drones and feudal Japanese-style riflemen.