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One thing that always surprises me in this hobby is how many people play WH40K, but have no interest in the story. Are there parts of the story that are poorly written or could have been done better? Of course. I largely believe however WH40K has one of the most interesting futuristic sci-fi settings out there. Why does one play WH40K if they have no interest in the setting? Like, what specifically draws them to WH40k when there are hundreds of other tabletop games out there that are far less expensive? Have you met player like this?

Commissar Benny wrote:
Like, what specifically draws them to WH40k when there are hundreds of other tabletop games out there that are far less expensive?

People actually play 40k.

Twenty five years of material produced by a game company that somewhere along the line decided, "We don't have to pay for consistency editing. Is what character X says on page Y a lie or is what character Z said in the previous book the lie? Arguing about that will give the fans something to do."

That, and the fact that for the past 25 years has been involved in the bizarre process of progress through historical revisionism. So there are large portions of the background that resemble what happens to a movie plot after the fifth sequel.

I hate the lore because, well i much prefer history and so on. Thats why i play the imperial guard because i can sorta compromise by having a historical theme and still get to play wargames.

Despite its setting a lot of 40k lore seems very childish and ill thought out.

I just like a more realistic feel in my interests.

Although a lot of the IG stuff looks pretty cool and thats another reason i get into it.

But over all the lore is too much run and gun, heroes and villains and has heaps of "why?!?" moments.

So overall i play and hate the fluff because of the freedom of the imperial guard to do anything to my taste and still have a great game with my friends.

Let's just say I'm not a fan of blatant power fantasies. The setting wants to be grim dark, but fails because there's an abundance of Space Marines. Remove Space Marines to the point where they actually are too rare and precious for anything but sector-threatening conflicts and you get a grim dark setting, on the plus side you'd also get the true heroes of mankind doing the difficult jobs - the Imperial Guard.

I'd still ignore the Space Marine fluff when fielding my Space Marine army, though, but that's an aesthetical choice.

I have met some players like that, but I still don´t get it.

The rules are a convoluted mess, the balance is awful, some models are ok but others are beyond nightmare territory... I don´t get why people who do not like the fluff play this game.

@Swastakowey: may I ask you... what about Flames of War?

Space Marines kill the lore for me. They take away too much grimdark and every time I read about them it feels like they win because space marine. Needless to say I'm not a fan of imperial lore
Eldar fluff is nice and dark though, a great race on the verge of extinction yet still trying with all of its remaining might to accomplish various objectives. But gw and bl take it too far and offer no hope whatsoever and they cry eldar are dying and that's all. It'd be much better if they had a more "rise from the ashes" theme to them(you know like a Phoenix) and were trying to recreate an empire once more, or something more than "were gonna die" it is overplayed I think. Especially when you consider the number of Craftworlds out there along with the exodite worlds that could actually make a sizeable territory. No match for the imperium in a head to head war, but still it would be nice to see the eldar put up a much more take charge attitude in the setting.
Dark Eldar fluff is good as is, I honestly wouldn't want it changed. Same goes for Necrons, albeit not having so many over the top one sided victories would be nice.
Daemons lore can actually be entertaining as well but the flow of time in it seems funky and unnecessary. I think that's just gw trying to be deep though.
CSM need some considerable changes for my taste. Abbadon honestly seems like a bad joke who can only win when he's fighting chaos, he needs to be like the ever chosen in fantasy, a terrifying opponent that makes your heart sink into despair on the battlefield. That and I don't understand why loyalist Marines seem to be better in lore against csms when on the table top its the other way around.
tau fluff I enjoy because the greater good is an insidious facade so I wouldn't change them too much.
Not much can really be done with the Tyranids, they're nice and horrific and there is a slim hope of fighting through them if you have good enough strategy.
Orks lore is actually really cool so I have no complaints about them either. I think that's all the factions and a bit of my thoughts on individual lore anyway

Redseer wrote:
Space Marines kill the lore for me. They take away too much grimdark and every time I read about them it feels like they win because space marine. Needless to say I'm not a fan of imperial lore (...)

I would like to point out that old lore for all Space Marines was far, far darker than the recent stuff.

 da001 wrote:
The rules are a convoluted mess, the balance is awful, some models are ok but others are beyond nightmare territory... I don´t get why people who do not like the fluff play this game.

It's fun playing, it's even more fun painting (as a social activity in groups of 3 to 7), and I have been unsuccessful converting people to Warmahorde. The most active players just don't want to pick up another game either because they feel they've got too many games going or because they dislike the models.

Model quality is actually a big thing and GW has that thing going for them really well.

Well, I actually respect the game more for the lore than the rules, frankly. I have more fun modelling forces that would fit into the setting I have loved for 20 years that gaming against others in a system that is easy to play games for the joy of powergaming, with no care for the setting.

I actually have much more fun with all the Specialist Games in the 40K setting than the main 40K game ruleset. They better reflect all the parts of the fluff I like more than just "rawr, Space marines versus Space Marines, let's see how many dice I can roll", which is unfortunately reflective of a large part of the 40K gaming population.

 da001 wrote:
I have met some players like that, but I still don´t get it.

The rules are a convoluted mess, the balance is awful, some models are ok but others are beyond nightmare territory... I don´t get why people who do not like the fluff play this game.

@Swastakowey: may I ask you... what about Flames of War?

I play Flames of war but there is a lack of freedom and lots of things "wrong" with the game but like most video games and wargames i have to bite my tounge and enjoy what i can. But i play early war and find its a lot better and easier to enjoy. Lore wise, its history, it happneded, it directly affected us, so i like it.

Im also going to get into warlord games historics in time too. For me a lack of players who enjoy historics really limits me to a few games.

Why? the FoW question?

 Swastakowey wrote:

 da001 wrote:
I have met some players like that, but I still don´t get it.

The rules are a convoluted mess, the balance is awful, some models are ok but others are beyond nightmare territory... I don´t get why people who do not like the fluff play this game.

@Swastakowey: may I ask you... what about Flames of War?

I play Flames of war but there is a lack of freedom and lots of things "wrong" with the game but like most video games and wargames i have to bite my tounge and enjoy what i can. But i play early war and find its a lot better and easier to enjoy. Lore wise, its history, it happneded, it directly affected us, so i like it.

Im also going to get into warlord games historics in time too. For me a lack of players who enjoy historics really limits me to a few games.

Why? the FoW question?

Curiosity. Thanks for answering.

I was told FoW got neat rules and it definitely has good-looking models. Never attracted me since, while I love History, I prefer some sci-fi. So I was curious about your opinion as a 40k player & history lover.

@Mahtamori: thanks for your answer too. Interesting.

 da001 wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:

 da001 wrote:
I have met some players like that, but I still don´t get it.

The rules are a convoluted mess, the balance is awful, some models are ok but others are beyond nightmare territory... I don´t get why people who do not like the fluff play this game.

@Swastakowey: may I ask you... what about Flames of War?

I play Flames of war but there is a lack of freedom and lots of things "wrong" with the game but like most video games and wargames i have to bite my tounge and enjoy what i can. But i play early war and find its a lot better and easier to enjoy. Lore wise, its history, it happneded, it directly affected us, so i like it.

Im also going to get into warlord games historics in time too. For me a lack of players who enjoy historics really limits me to a few games.

Why? the FoW question?

Curiosity. Thanks for answering.

I was told FoW got neat rules and it definitely has good-looking models. Never attracted me since, while I love History, I prefer some sci-fi. So I was curious about your opinion as a 40k player & history lover.

@Mahtamori: thanks for your answer too. Interesting.

The rules are great i was talking from a lore perspective. Seriously read the rules it will amaze you how much better it is over all in comparrison to 40k. But the setting has to be skewed a lot of history for balance and variety but for gameplay its worth it for sure.

Because some people like playing a mediocre to bad wargame and like ignoring the only part about 40k that is even kind of interesting or unique.

 Void__Dragon wrote:
Because some people like playing a mediocre to bad wargame and like ignoring the only part about 40k that is even kind of interesting or unique.

Or they just like kicking back with their friends with some cool models and conversions, along with some beautiful maps playing a game that you can garuantee to get every time... Where setting up takes a few minutes because the missions are basic and pointless and the way the rules are written means we can change anything we want to our whim without affecting other rules adversly. Simply put there is lots more to 40k than its bland fluff.

There is not. There are less time-consuming and more intellectually stimulating ways to spend a day or night with friends than 40k.

 Void__Dragon wrote:
There is not. There are less time-consuming and more intellectually stimulating ways to spend a day or night with friends than 40k.

Like what? Because non of my friends play pike and shotte, or king of kings, or much flames of war, or well much of anything else. So yes it is the best way to enjoy a night with my friends because they like the fluff more than i. Also you may hate 40k, for whatever reason, but other people have thoughts and opinions that very, very obviously differ from yours. And i never said anything about intellectually stimulating. Id simply go back to my history books if i wanted that.

You should find better friends.

And yes, some people do indeed have different thoughts and opinions.

But I didn't try to force mine on anyone nor did I intend it as a response to anyone else, in an attempt to, oh I don't know, "disprove" someone else's opinion. The only one doing such things here is you.

 Void__Dragon wrote:
You should find better friends.

And yes, some people do indeed have different thoughts and opinions.

But I didn't try to force mine on anyone nor did I intend it as a response to anyone else, in an attempt to, oh I don't know, "disprove" someone else's opinion. The only one doing such things here is you.

So my friends are sub par because of their tastes....

An opinion is "I think that there are better ways to do it." not "there are better ways." Your comments annoyed me thats all. Word you opinions better i think

Commissar Benny wrote: Are there parts of the story that are poorly written or could have been done better?

So much of it is awful, it's difficult to tell where to start these days.

Which is kinda sad, because the setting used to be what made 40K so cool.

Was it?

I've actually read some of the material from the Rogue Trader era and nearby not filtered by nostalgia, and have found the writing to be largely stupid, and the artwork (Not really that relevant I know but it left a really strong impression on me) pretty horrible.

Edit: The main exception to this being Realms of Chaos.

Animus wrote:

Commissar Benny wrote:
Like, what specifically draws them to WH40k when there are hundreds of other tabletop games out there that are far less expensive?

People actually play 40k.

There is definitely some truth to this.

40K will still be here tomorrow. How many start-up games have people invested in that failed?

I can tell you that the best rules for modern combat on the tabletop I've read was Devil Dog Design's Dogs of War. It lasted maybe three years before the company went belly up. 40K might be a bloated mess, but it's a bloated mess with a stable company behind it. Plus, it also has a fanbase. You have to have two people to play games. Running another system means convincing others to make the same monetary investment.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Void__Dragon wrote:
Was it?

I've actually read some of the material from the Rogue Trader era and nearby not filtered by nostalgia, and have found the writing to be largely stupid, and the artwork (Not really that relevant I know but it left a really strong impression on me) pretty horrible.

I'm not even talking about Rogue Trader. Rogue Trader was silly. Everyone knows that, and it's part of what fuels the nostalgia for some people. I'm talking about mostly the fluff consolidation in 2nd Edition that started "modern" 40K. It wasn't all good, all the time, but it was much less fleshed out.

Adding more fluff for 20 years is what ruined 40K. When a setting is as silly as 40K, less is more.

Orks that reproduce by being bonked and are thus inexhaustible isn't grimdark, lol. It's stupid. In fact it's just as stupid as Orks being the galaxy's rowdy neighbors who got worked up after watching too many Mad Max marathons. At least that's amusing comic relief. 40K was better when there was a bit more tongue in cheek.


Debating the art quality is pointless though. The art in Rogue Trader was what a bunch of guys publishing a book more or less out of their basement could afford, not what a multi-million dollar company can afford to source from literally an Internet full of artists already familiar with the license and willing to proffer samples. It's so apples to oranges it might as well be apples to carburetors.

Redseer wrote:
Space Marines kill the lore for me. They take away too much grimdark and every time I read about them it feels like they win because space marine. Needless to say I'm not a fan of imperial lore (...)

Same here, bro.
That's why I converted from Ultramarines (When I started, my friend was an Ultra player) to Chaos Marines.
Specifically, Nurgle. All that decay, entropy, and fear of pain (something I can relate to).


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 Mahtamori wrote:

 da001 wrote:
The rules are a convoluted mess, the balance is awful, some models are ok but others are beyond nightmare territory... I don´t get why people who do not like the fluff play this game.

It's fun playing, it's even more fun painting (as a social activity in groups of 3 to 7), and I have been unsuccessful converting people to Warmahorde. The most active players just don't want to pick up another game either because they feel they've got too many games going or because they dislike the models.

Model quality is actually a big thing and GW has that thing going for them really well.

The sharp points, convoluted warped shapes and bulkiness of Chaos models appeals to me

I've never seen another wargame get close to Chaos in its workings and designs.

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:
I'm not even talking about Rogue Trader. Rogue Trader was silly. Everyone knows that, and it's part of what fuels the nostalgia for some people. I'm talking about mostly the fluff consolidation in 2nd Edition that started "modern" 40K. It wasn't all good, all the time, but it was much less fleshed out.

See, I've read the second edition Chaos codex, and the sixth edition Chaos Marines and Daemons codices. And I... Barely noticed a difference. If anything, the sixth edition codices were probably better and had more interesting battles and gak in them, though Doombreed actually being a SC in 2e was kinda neat.

Adding more fluff for 20 years is what ruined 40K. When a setting is as silly as 40K, less is more.

Orks that reproduce by being bonked and are thus inexhaustible isn't grimdark, lol. It's stupid. In fact it's just as stupid as Orks being the galaxy's rowdy neighbors who got worked up after watching too many Mad Max marathons. At least that's amusing comic relief. 40K was better when there was a bit more tongue in cheek.

The "Orks are plants" aspect of the race just furthered that aspect. They are literally a really fething annoying weed that won't go away in the Imperium's backyard.

I do prefer a bit of humor in 40k, even if some might be unintentional (Like basically everything Rogal Dorn does). I am not sure if the homoeroticism between Marines that is so absurdly thick it could choke a small dog is intentional or not, but it is one of my favorite aspects of the setting. Space Wolves literally riding on top of one another in battle is just the icing on the cake.

Debating the art quality is pointless though. The art in Rogue Trader was what a bunch of guys publishing a book more or less out of their basement could afford, not what a multi-million dollar company can afford to source from literally an Internet full of artists already familiar with the license and willing to proffer samples. It's so apples to oranges it might as well be apples to carburetors.

No, I see what you are saying, but then I meet fat old men who need to get out of my basement who whine about how the current artwork is not as good as the old art, so imagine my shock when I actually read some old books and I saw the artwork.

Also, before 40k came out, didn't GW already have a base in the US?

 Void__Dragon wrote:

Also, before 40k came out, didn't GW already have a base in the US?

I believe the creators of GW were selling RPG books internationally, and took orders for boardgames.

 Selym wrote:

 Void__Dragon wrote:

Also, before 40k came out, didn't GW already have a base in the US?

I believe the creators of GW were selling RPG books internationally, and took orders for boardgames.

I think they had a US publisher and distributor, but I don't know if you can really call that a base.

So I read this:

 Void__Dragon wrote:
There is not. There are less time-consuming and more intellectually stimulating ways to spend a day or night with friends than 40k.

And I thought it was a bit weird, because who considers it a problem if an evening with friends consumes time? But hey, if a chap finds himself leaving a friend's house wishing he could have got the whole sorry social process out of the way more quickly, fair enough. But then I read:

 Void__Dragon wrote:
You should find better friends.

In response to a poster who plays 40k solely because he actually likes his friends? I dunno, weird. Whatevs.

Well, back to the OP I can't figure out why anybody would play 40k without being interested in the lore. I enjoy the lore and weaving it all together, for better or worse. It is enough super glue to hold things together, but not too much. Sure, there are games with better mechanics, but I just cant get behind warmachine/hordes lore:I like my tau for the space communists they are, and my eldar for the elitist jerks they are. I also really like a lot of GW models, even for armies I don't play. I feel a bit when I have to kill sammael on his jetbike, or calgar, or vulkan, or whatever the dark eldar is using his mandrakes as.
GW can (for the most part) make form follow function. It is a bit strange, but I like when my fire warriors bring 2X4 boards to battle and they tear open a rhino. I like it when my wraithlord using 2 shoulder guns can be threatened and have a good combat with a plague champion. GW has good models and...more or less gives you the ability to make then unique. I enjoy the days when i fight a tricked out thunderwolf lord, but I equally enjoy a brave IG commander leading a horde of guardsmen. My gaming group all plays competitively, but they all play armies and strategies matching their personalities.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Well, back to the OP I can't figure out why anybody would play 40k without being interested in the lore. I enjoy the lore and weaving it all together, for better or worse. It is enough super glue to hold things together, but not too much. Sure, there are games with better mechanics, but I just cant get behind warmachine/hordes lore:I like my tau for the space communists they are, and my eldar for the elitist jerks they are. I also really like a lot of GW models, even for armies I don't play. I feel a bit when I have to kill sammael on his jetbike, or calgar, or vulkan, or whatever the dark eldar is using his mandrakes as.
GW can (for the most part) make form follow function. It is a bit strange, but I like when my fire warriors bring 2X4 boards to battle and they tear open a rhino. I like it when my wraithlord using 2 shoulder guns can be threatened and have a good combat with a plague champion. GW has good models and...more or less gives you the ability to make then unique. I enjoy the days when i fight a tricked out thunderwolf lord, but I equally enjoy a brave IG commander leading a horde of guardsmen. My gaming group all plays competitively, but they all play armies and strategies matching their personalities.

I like the lore as far as it pertains to the table top. It's cool when an Ork Warboss has his Waaaagh stopped by my Chapter Master, or when the Tau expansionists get flattened by an Armored Company shelling....but it's only cool to me ON THE TABLE TOP.

The background stories are, largely, poorly written and dull. "Bolter porn" couldn't be less interesting to me. Plus, when they starting getting into the details (the billions of casualties in every battle, the thousands of systems in every crusade, the [huge number] of everything, always) it gets to the point that the exaggerated numbers just make the whole thing mean nothing.

But, I have my 80 guardsmen in this one game, and you have your 50 chaos marines/cultists, and it's manageable enough to tell a story. It helps, telling that story, to be familiar with the background material, but a passing familiarity is as much as I could tolerate of this stuff.

 tomjoad wrote:
I like the lore as far as it pertains to the table top. It's cool when an Ork Warboss has his Waaaagh stopped by my Chapter Master, or when the Tau expansionists get flattened by an Armored Company shelling....but it's only cool to me ON THE TABLE TOP.

The background stories are, largely, poorly written and dull. "Bolter porn" couldn't be less interesting to me. Plus, when they starting getting into the details (the billions of casualties in every battle, the thousands of systems in every crusade, the [huge number] of everything, always) it gets to the point that the exaggerated numbers just make the whole thing mean nothing.

But, I have my 80 guardsmen in this one game, and you have your 50 chaos marines/cultists, and it's manageable enough to tell a story. It helps, telling that story, to be familiar with the background material, but a passing familiarity is as much as I could tolerate of this stuff.

Try some of the Daemon fluff - it's anti bolter porn.