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Question, do Gork and Mork exist in the same sense chaos gods do? are they just ork superstition? are they some sort of backwater demon?

It isn't an area that is covered with specific details but we can safely say that Gork and Mork are probably more like the old Eldar gods, in that they are warp entities that represent some facet of the race. Orks being orks they only need two.

They have never been bested by the Chaos Gods and so you would think of them as pretty powerful but, given the dearth of involvement in the background they are just sorts there.

In Waaargh The Orks they are described thus, 'known ork gods include two legendary heroic deities' which could mean there are more but less well known outside of ork kultur.

Gork and Mork are left very fuzzy and nonspecific by GW, and for good reason, as if they do exist in the same sense as the 4 other major Chaos gods, they would be more powerful than them by orders of magnitude,simply due to how many orks there are.

What you have to remember is that there are a GAK-ton of orks, enough of them that they make the IG's numbers look small by comparison, and the IG is stated as having 'countless billions' of soldiers in it. So you have all these trillions upon trillions of orks, and each of them has very little psychic ability for the most part, but there are just so many of the that the WAAAGH! field they create with their very presense is enough to bend the physical laws of the universe in the same way Chaos does. Vehicles painted yellow go faster than those painted blue for instance because the orks believe painting them yellow makes them faster, grenades they paint red create bigger explosions simply because the orks collectively believe that painting them red will do this.

It's basically what you get when you multiply a probability, no matter how infinitesimally small as long as it is not 0, by infinity. The answer is Always going to be 1, simply because the number you multiplied it with is so vast. So any possibility that isn't 0 inherently becomes 1 when multiplied by a suitably large number, and that's what you have with the orks. trillions upon trillions of tiny psychic forces added together to create a force strong enough to bend the laws of physics.

So, having said all this, what happens when all these countless Trillions of orks not only vehemently believe in the existence of Gork and Mork, but also believe them to be the most powerful entities in existence, because "ORKS IS DA STRONGEST"?

Exactly, and that is why they are kept as fuzzy, non specific forces rather than the fleshed out concepts we have for the 4 major Chaos gods.

Horus654 wrote:
Gork and Mork are left very fuzzy and nonspecific by GW, and for good reason, as if they do exist in the same sense as the 4 other major Chaos gods, they would be more powerful than them by orders of magnitude,simply due to how many orks there are.

What you have to remember is that there are a GAK-ton of orks, enough of them that they make the IG's numbers look small by comparison, and the IG is stated as having 'countless billions' of soldiers in it. So you have all these trillions upon trillions of orks, and each of them has very little psychic ability for the most part, but there are just so many of the that the WAAAGH! field they create with their very presense is enough to bend the physical laws of the universe in the same way Chaos does. Vehicles painted yellow go faster than those painted blue for instance because the orks believe painting them yellow makes them faster, grenades they paint red create bigger explosions simply because the orks collectively believe that painting them red will do this.

It's basically what you get when you multiply a probability, no matter how infinitesimally small as long as it is not 0, by infinity. The answer is Always going to be 1, simply because the number you multiplied it with is so vast. So any possibility that isn't 0 inherently becomes 1 when multiplied by a suitably large number, and that's what you have with the orks. trillions upon trillions of tiny psychic forces added together to create a force strong enough to bend the laws of physics.

So, having said all this, what happens when all these countless Trillions of orks not only vehemently believe in the existence of Gork and Mork, but also believe them to be the most powerful entities in existence, because "ORKS IS DA STRONGEST"?

Exactly, and that is why they are kept as fuzzy, non specific forces rather than the fleshed out concepts we have for the 4 major Chaos gods.

Khorne is soaking in on all the Ork violence too. He is the god of bloodshed.
This is rather bad logic. The Eldar and Ork gods are gods of only one race. The chaos gods are gods of entire concepts and acts native to every race including Orks, Eldar, and every other sapient lifeform. This makes THEM more powerful by multiple magnitudes.

I seem to remember Gork (Or possibly Mork) Kicking the gak out of Khorne in the fluff somewhere. So I would say they exist in the warp in some way. Unless they tore their way into the warp just for a scrap with the god of bloodshed. I'd believe that too.

Skribl wrote:
I seem to remember Gork (Or possibly Mork) Kicking the gak out of Khorne in the fluff somewhere. So I would say they exist in the warp in some way. Unless they tore their way into the warp just for a scrap with the god of bloodshed. I'd believe that too.

Source?
We hear this a lot around here, but no one can ever give the source.

The Big Four are said in the rule book to be the most powerful and dangerous entities in the warp.

I know they can kick the gak out of Nurgle, dunno about special K though

Animus wrote:
The Big Four are said in the rule book to be the most powerful and dangerous entities in the warp.

Well there you have it. The rulebook trumps all Codex fluff.


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 Dakkamite wrote:
I know they can kick the gak out of Nurgle, dunno about special K though

They would have to gang up on him and Nurgle's power would have to waning.
It's possible.

 ThePrimordial wrote:

Animus wrote:
The Big Four are said in the rule book to be the most powerful and dangerous entities in the warp.

Well there you have it. The rulebook trumps all Codex fluff.

Until the next codex comes out. After all, at one point, all space marines wish they were Ultramarines. GW has never come out with a definitive pecking order for all warp entities. We can only just guess by what is implied, also remembering that each individual section paints their own faction in the best light.

I'm also very dubious of your claims that the chaos gods just slurp power from everybody everywhere. But this is just an agree to disagree matter as all 40K fluff is up for individual interpretation.

 Jayden63 wrote:

 ThePrimordial wrote:

Animus wrote:
The Big Four are said in the rule book to be the most powerful and dangerous entities in the warp.

Well there you have it. The rulebook trumps all Codex fluff.

Until the next codex comes out. After all, at one point, all space marines wish they were Ultramarines. GW has never come out with a definitive pecking order for all warp entities. We can only just guess by what is implied, also remembering that each individual section paints their own faction in the best light.

I'm also very dubious of your claims that the chaos gods just slurp power from everybody everywhere. But this is just an agree to disagree matter as all 40K fluff is up for individual interpretation.

Again the Rulebook is written from a neutral perspective. It is not trying to pimp out the army it's describing nor is it written by said army. The Rulebook trumps codex fluff.

 ThePrimordial wrote:

Animus wrote:
The Big Four are said in the rule book to be the most powerful and dangerous entities in the warp.

Well there you have it. The rulebook trumps all Codex fluff.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Dakkamite wrote:
I know they can kick the gak out of Nurgle, dunno about special K though

They would have to gang up on him and Nurgle's power would have to waning.
It's possible.

Actually they found nurgle in the drops one day and beat him up because he had eaten all the snotlings.(No snotlings were hurt in this tale.Other then ones Gork and Mork ate.)

As I understand it - the Warp Powers like the Chaos, Ork and Eldar Gods overlap in their power source so when the latter was consumed its really just a consilidation of power?

 ThePrimordial wrote:

Again the Rulebook is written from a neutral perspective. It is not trying to pimp out the army it's describing nor is it written by said army. The Rulebook trumps codex fluff.

But what if a codex retcons something? The Newcrons, for example. That was a big retcon, right? Yet I imagine that the 5e rulebook stuck to the Oldcron fluff. Did you not believe the Newcron fluff until the 6e rulebook?

Also, have to say, I don't like this idea of "oh, codexes are all biased propaganda, what they say is dubious at best". Really, it's not even true. The 6E SoB codex, for example has an interesting line. Basically, it says something like "the power of their belief that the Emperor will protect them". What's interesting about this is it's basically disagreeing with what the SoB themselves believe, so it can't really be biased propaganda. I'm sure there's other such examples in codexes too, so we shouldn't just dismiss codexes arbitrarily.

 Troike wrote:

 ThePrimordial wrote:

Again the Rulebook is written from a neutral perspective. It is not trying to pimp out the army it's describing nor is it written by said army. The Rulebook trumps codex fluff.

But what if a codex retcons something? The Newcrons, for example. That was a big retcon, right? Yet I imagine that the 5e rulebook stuck to the Oldcron fluff. Did you not believe the Newcron fluff until the 6e rulebook?

Also, have to say, I don't like this idea of "oh, codexes are all biased propaganda, what they say is dubious at best". Really, it's not even true. The 6E SoB codex, for example has an interesting line. Basically, it says something like "the power of their belief that the Emperor will protect them". What's interesting about this is it's basically disagreeing with what the SoB themselves believe, so it can't really be biased propaganda. I'm sure there's other such examples in codexes too, so we shouldn't just dismiss codexes arbitrarily.

If suddenly there are 3 codeces by different authors in a row that all say the same thing then the rulebook is overturned.
I personally don't believe that. I just think the rulebook trumps Any one codex if they both have different views on the same subject.

I can't agree that the rulebook always trumps codexes as SM and CSM are GW's favoured factions and the rule books reflect this.

Incorrect. SM are the favored faction. CSM is treated like an absolute mess only in the 2000s having a book where they win, they don't really win in their own IA, often are killed in droves by loyalists, and their codex is an absolute mess of bad . Horus Heresy era though they are quite the rage

I was talking more about the quantity of the fluff and CSM's prevalence in the fiction than their table-top ability, where GW dropped the ball a bit on the updated codex. They are the bad guys so will be depicted as an ever-present threat but ultimately be trumped by the Imperium's dull righteousness. I enjoy the HH fiction but there is too strong a focus on it, plenty of other interesting parts in the 'history' to illuminate.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Back on topic though, I don't know much of the fiction around Gork and Mork but personally think of them as a competing power to the likes of the Chaos gods. Potentially not quite as powerful though as the ruinous powers gain power from most facets of 40k life in some way. But Gork and Mork would happily give Khorne a dead leg and spit in Tzeentch's tea for a laugh.

I think Joss Weeden perfectly depicted a fight between Gork or was it Mork and Khorne.

 Jayden63 wrote:
I think Joss Weeden perfectly depicted a fight between Gork or was it Mork and Khorne.

Who is who? And so is the madness that is the warp

 Jayden63 wrote:
I think Joss Weeden perfectly depicted a fight between Gork or was it Mork and Khorne.

I do believe that is tzeentch, but still very funny

Me i would have said Slaanesh.

Each to their own..

'Puny God...' indeed

I think khorne, gork, and mork would all enjoy doing that~