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Huh, I'd forgotten about ADB's Black Legion series... looks like I may have to break my no hardback policy in order to get those. The cover certainly looks good and I have few doubts the contents will disappoint given the quality of prior works

Really looking forward to ADB's Abaddon stuff.

If ANYONE can make me like reading out the Black Legion, it will be ADB!

I'll also admit to being a bit worried about the "LEGION DIVIDED" thing on the White Scars novel.

I'll wait, of course, before passing judgement, but I'm already more than a little annoyed with what's been done to the Alpha Legion after Abnett's great start...

 Manchu wrote:
We hear a lot of doom and gloom about publishing and bookselling but where is the evidence that there is less consumer demand for fiction? Is this not the era of book-driven media power houses, from Lord of the Rings through Harry Potter to Twilight and Hunger Games and many others? There is a healthy market for this stuff. Of course the increasing prevalence of mobile platforms is shaping that market but let's not just buy into publishers playing the victim card.

I think you're correct that fiction is doing fine right now. The bigger issue is there is so much more diversity now. More than ever, perhaps. People can e-publish their own books. There are hundreds if not thousands of publishers, now. So there's lots of competition, and it's easy for your niche to get lost in the shuffle.

How that relates to only selling your ebooks via your dedicated website versus letting others sell it via amazon, etc, I don't know. I'm no industry expert.

@ Aaron: Big fan of your work. Just completed Helsreach (trade copy) for the second time during plane trips to and from Chicago. I look forward to your next novels.

However, I'll be waiting on the MMPB releases, though. It's my choice. I don't care for Trade or hardbacks for my Horus Heresy books, or any books if I can avoid them. Neener-neener.

Man, I know three books I'm going to have to get .

As someone that loves his little pulp looking mmpb HH novels, I do have a HC and a few Trade paperbacks, and as long as the story in them is good, I couldn't care? I mean obviously I care about paying 30 bucks over 17-20 bucks (not positive on the TPB pricing) over 8 dollars to get the same story, but the biggest gripe I've had with this change over is the lack of release dates and what's coming down the pipeline. I own every HH release from Thousand Suns to Mark of Calth, not including Age of Darkness, The Primarchs, and Shadows of Treachery because they were compilations of short stories. Though I bought Mark of Calth not knowing that fact and was very pleasantly surprised . Nothing I look at tells me what is around the corner for HH novels. We've had the Unremembered Empire cover art since around November, and the title has been on our tongues here at Dakka since April of 2012. So when will it be released? I'd like to know so I could get it from my FLGS. I don't really care about the lack of 40k updates because news and rumors is still just as alive as it was before the Grey Knight release, but books are a bit of a different nature for me. I read like it's going out of style...

Ugh, sorry rant over. And thanks for coming into the thread Aaron, by far my favorite BL author, and I'd love to see your writing when it's not contained to the 40k universe.

From listening to Sword of Truth, however not having got round to Brotherhood of the Storm yet...

I suspect that the "A Legion Divided" will have very little, if anything to do with the Alpha Legion and be more focussed around the fact that....

Dead Blue Clown wrote:
getting to claim you're a NYT bestseller is basically author/publishing gold

Dead Blue Clown wrote:
I'd rather hit the bestseller list than make more money

Dead Blue Clown wrote:
that's just lame, selfish personal stuff, and you could legitimately argue that "Grow up, Aaron" is the best reply to it

This is the part that really confuses me. In what sense is making the NYT's list publishing gold and at the same time just personal? Okay, yes I understand you are saying that it's personally satisfying to have books on that list -- but that's a huge professional boon, too. Just for example, you can print "NYT Best Selling Author" beneath your name anywhere, not just on BL's covers. And for BL, it certainly doesn't hurt to be able to print "Best Selling Series" on their HH covers.

I guess the question is, is that NYT marketing platform worth more than simply doubling prices? I believe you when you say just doubling prices (that's what this really boils down to) makes you as a writer and BL as a publisher more money right now. But I suspect BL will not see the same kind of growth in readership that it did between 2006 and 2010. I certainly could be wrong. If trade paperbacks are really the new black -- that is, if this really is about "the realities of the publishing industry" -- then HH books in trade paperback should be back on the NYT's list soon, right?

I don't think it has anything to do with the support of horus.

I think it has a lot more to do with the feral worlders of the White Scars being really at odds with those from Terra. This is based on the info from Brotherhood of the Storm.

 Alpharius wrote:
If ANYONE can make me like reading out the Black Legion, it will be ADB!

QFT - remember Abaddon's scene in Soul Hunter? I have been waiting for this!

 Manchu wrote:
If trade paperbacks are really the new black -- that is, if this really is about "the realities of the publishing industry" -- then HH books in trade paperback should be back on the NYT's list soon, right?

I can imagine that there's "Realities of the publishing industry" of Hardback > Trade paperback goes.

Which is a separate issue in ADB's mind of.

"Preorders, initial releases solely through Black Library when it's first released, causing a staged release and therefore not causing him to be on the NYT list anymore, as opposed to if it was everywhere at the same time."

But yeah, it probably is a matter of. Short term cash (BL/GW release method) VS Long Term growth as a internationally recognised professional writer (NYT Bestseller List).

It's not just the writers but also the series and ultimately the publishing house. Again, unless HH trade paperbacks start reliably making the NYT's list.

 Manchu wrote:
It's not just the writers but also the series and ultimately the publishing house. Again, unless HH trade paperbacks start reliably making the NYT's list.

Here's your key right here, dawg:

It is based on weekly sales reports obtained from selected samples of independent and chain bookstores and wholesalers throughout the United States.

From here: http://www.sacbee.com/2012/01/22/4203094/best-sellers-lists-how-they-work.html

In effect, for the NYT list, it could simply be that the Black Library isn't one of the wholesalers they poll.

Killer?

Changed to dawg to avoid the negative connotations of "killer"

Yep, I was assuming as much. I'm referring to another example of how BL is not aligning with the publishing industry generally, the exclusive hardcover release. It doesn't seem reasonable to me that exclusive release hardcovers that cost nearly four times as much as MMPBs can make up for much less exceed the revenue generated from the MMPBs -- especially keeping in mind that BL rode onto the NYT list with MMPBs. The real test would be a retail release HH hardcover.

 cincydooley wrote:

From here: http://www.sacbee.com/2012/01/22/4203094/best-sellers-lists-how-they-work.html

In effect, for the NYT list, it could simply be that the Black Library isn't one of the wholesalers they poll.

I would assume though that one of the chains that gets polled is Barnes & Noble, which stocks HH books...

 Alfndrate wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:

From here: http://www.sacbee.com/2012/01/22/4203094/best-sellers-lists-how-they-work.html

In effect, for the NYT list, it could simply be that the Black Library isn't one of the wholesalers they poll.

I would assume though that one of the chains that gets polled is Barnes & Noble, which stocks HH books...

But not the Hardcover HH books, nor do they 'stock' the digital versions....

And seriously, by the time all the folks waiting for the MMPBs get around to reading them, most of the people really passionate about the series already have, either digitally, in hardcover, or in Trade. Based on what Aaron is saying, the overall #s of books being sold is actually increasing. However, they're more spread out, it would seem.

Like I said, by the time the MMPB comes out, I'd wager a good half to two/thirds of your HH readership has already read the book.

 cincydooley wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:

From here: http://www.sacbee.com/2012/01/22/4203094/best-sellers-lists-how-they-work.html

In effect, for the NYT list, it could simply be that the Black Library isn't one of the wholesalers they poll.

I would assume though that one of the chains that gets polled is Barnes & Noble, which stocks HH books...

But not the Hardcover HH books, nor do they 'stock' the digital versions....

And seriously, by the time all the folks waiting for the MMPBs get around to reading them, most of the people really passionate about the series already have, either digitally, in hardcover, or in Trade. Based on what Aaron is saying, the overall #s of books being sold is actually increasing. However, they're more spread out, it would seem.

Like I said, by the time the MMPB comes out, I'd wager a good half to two/thirds of your HH readership has already read the book.

They don't stock the Hardcovers? Are those BL directs? I mean my only HH hardback to date is Mark of Calth, though B&N Does stock other BL hard covers. I've seen Pariah, Emperor's Gift, and a few others in HC.

I'm sorry, lemme clarify. The HH hardcovers are BL Directs.

The others they do stock, but none of them was ever up for any NYT Best Sellers consideration in the first place.

 cincydooley wrote:
I'm sorry, lemme clarify. The HH hardcovers are BL Directs.

The others they do stock, but none of them was ever up for any NYT Best Sellers consideration in the first place.

That's what I wanted to make sure of . Which explains why we only have trade paperbacks of Angel Exterminatus and Betrayer in my store.

Wolf Brothers just went up for order on CD for anybody who hasn't downloaded it from blacklibary yet. You'll remember the CD was originally a black library weekender special edition. This might not have the fancy packaging but it's still a cd:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1849704236/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

And censure:

http://www.amazon.com/Censure-Horus-Heresy-Nick-Kyme/dp/1849705461/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1373927881&sr=8-3&keywords=horus+heresy+cd

 Manchu wrote:

Dead Blue Clown wrote:
getting to claim you're a NYT bestseller is basically author/publishing gold

Dead Blue Clown wrote:
I'd rather hit the bestseller list than make more money

Dead Blue Clown wrote:
that's just lame, selfish personal stuff, and you could legitimately argue that "Grow up, Aaron" is the best reply to it

This is the part that really confuses me. In what sense is making the NYT's list publishing gold and at the same time just personal? Okay, yes I understand you are saying that it's personally satisfying to have books on that list -- but that's a huge professional boon, too. Just for example, you can print "NYT Best Selling Author" beneath your name anywhere, not just on BL's covers. And for BL, it certainly doesn't hurt to be able to print "Best Selling Series" on their HH covers.

I guess the question is, is that NYT marketing platform worth more than simply doubling prices? I believe you when you say just doubling prices (that's what this really boils down to) makes you as a writer and BL as a publisher more money right now. But I suspect BL will not see the same kind of growth in readership that it did between 2006 and 2010. I certainly could be wrong. If trade paperbacks are really the new black -- that is, if this really is about "the realities of the publishing industry" -- then HH books in trade paperback should be back on the NYT's list soon, right?

I asked the exact same question in my authorial huff, though I asked it in a profoundly whinier way. The main weight of benefit is being able to say it's a New York Times bestselling series - and once you've cracked that, it's mostly diminishing returns in terms of nebulous prestige. That may not necessarily have been true X years ago when the physical book trade wasn't such a wounded creature lying on the deck and begging "Don't leave me, Soundwave...", but as it stands now, the previous system of selling extensively through bookstores is basically a thing of the past. (See: the bajillions of closing bookstores and floundering franchises). So their system of following sales trends of previous NYT bestsellers, etc. no longer has anything like as much relevance.

On a practical level, cracking the list lets you slap that fact on the covers, and the job's a good'un. Similarly, getting to say you're an NYT bestseller is "what matters", and getting on it again and again is just gravy.

It doesn't always feel that way to me, because like any writer I'm a fragile homunculus held together only by spit, spite and self-loathing, but I guess I can at least recognise the logic behind it.

I'm not so much talking about nebulous prestige as the power of the NYT Best Seller List as a marketing platform. I guess it gets a bit touchy (and no offense intended to any HH authors here) but I don't think every HH book that made the list clawed its own way on ... some if not all definitely had help from other books in the series that already made it. In any case, I look forward to seeing whether BL's HH trades ever make it back on the list and how much farther BL will withdraw into exclusivity.

As for the more immediate future -- Chris Wraight's continuing work on the SW and your own Abaddon books will certainly end up on my shelf, not to mention Graham's "of Mars" series. I guess it is the exclusivity that worries me the most, not really the reformat generally ... again, the issue with reformat being that I can no longer afford to give any book by any BL author a chance. I'm glad this didn't happen when you were new. I'd never have read Cadian Blood except at MMPB prices, ah what the hell. And I've bought all your 40k books since, minus Aurellian and Betrayer.

 Manchu wrote:

As for the more immediate future -- Chris Wraight's continuing work on the SW and your own Abaddon books will certainly end up on my shelf, not to mention Graham's "of Mars" series. I guess it is the exclusivity that worries me the most, not really the reformat generally ... again, the issue with reformat being that I can no longer afford to give any book by any BL author a chance. I'm glad this didn't happen when you were new. I'd never have read Cadian Blood except at MMPB prices, ah what the hell. And I've bought all your 40k books since, minus Aurellian and Betrayer.

So... is it the MMPB price you're missing, or the actual format itself?

Oh, it's just a matter of price. I know some people have said in these BL threads that they miss all their books looking similar but I'm not concerned with that.

i think it's fair to say we would all like lower prices...
that said, i'm guilty of buying the $15.99 enhanced eBooks, instead of waiting for the cheaper versions...
i like the art and afterword, and not having to wait for my fiction fix...

pretty much everything shown on the last page looks interesting, so i know i'll be snatching up Vulcan Lives, Scars, and Unremembered Empire...
the next Gaunt's Ghosts book sounds good, and digital Blood and Fire is available seperate from Helsreach (which i already have in print), so all in all it looks like the next few months will see some good reads...

cheers
jah

 Manchu wrote:
Oh, it's just a matter of price. I know some people have said in these BL threads that they miss all their books looking similar but I'm not concerned with that.

So presumably you'd buy the HH books digitally at $8-10 then?

For me it is the price AND the format.

Matching the rest of the HH series is a minor issue - but I do like holding a MMPB sized book while reading.

Now admittedly, I'm probably a bit of a dinosaur, and most likely on the high side of any sort of age range that is 'typical' for a GW/BL customer.

Speaking as someone who used to buy BL books regularly, the last book I bought was "The Sundering" omnibus.

Have bought nothing else not out of boycotting or anything like that; but out of sheer disinterest.
'The Horus Heresy' has gotten stale for my tastes and there is very little good Imperial Guard novels going around now to whet my whistle.

Still read "Cadian Blood" every other month though.

Agreed, things have gotten awfully stale. Shame really, as I'm dying for the next Dark Heresy novel to hit us. Or another Rogue Trader novel, that would be neat. Though chances are, neither are going to happen.

That said though, the Macharius trilogy so far is good.

I'm wishing that we could get some more Alith Anar stuff, or maybe a wacky adventure novel of a Ratling Sniper and his Ogryn sidekick.