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@Tamereth

IME from tourney with my Deathwatch and casual play at local game store;

2 Frag Cannon per team is enough to deal with any horde or blob you may face. I have killed an entire mob of GEQs/ roughly half a squad of MEQs / few TEQs. 4 is overkill, you want to spread it out. Yes add shotgun/bolter Marine to soak fire. I run 6 pods with roughly 30 Marines total, and with 50 skitarii pushing from the ground. Just get pods if you want pod focus.

Breachers? eh? Infernus Heavy Bolter is cool, but but but, for 5 more points you get Frag Cannon! A much superior alternative to the Infernus. 2 templates a turn and 2d3 on overwatch is very very lethal.

For libby I just give em standard stuff and roll for divination with my stalker bolter squad for sniping enemy HVTs.

Artemis is over priced but fun to use in casual setting. Put him in ub3r kill team with strategium command team with chappy in toll so he can re-roll his D grenade in case he misses some how lol.

And I recently thought of one idea:

Blackspear Strike Force:

Strategium Command Team: 285 pts
Watch Captain ( Terminator Armour, Aegis Dominus )
Veterans ( 4 x Stalker Pattern Boltgun, Missile Launcher )

Aquilla Kill Team 355 pts
Veterans ( 3 x Combi-Melta, 2 x Frag Cannon )
Terminator ( Cyclon Missile Launcher )
Terminator ( Assault Cannon )
Terminator

Aquilla Kill Team 355 pts
Veterans ( 3 x Combi-Melta, 2 x Frag Cannon )
Terminator ( Cyclon Missile Launcher )
Terminator ( Assault Cannon )
Terminator


Dominatus Kill Team 320 pts
Veterans ( 4 x Shotgun, Infernus Heavy Bolter )
Vanguard Veterans ( x 5, 3 x SS, 2 x PW, Power Fist )





Armoured Shield Formation:

Commissar
25 pts
Infantry Squad ( Vox Caster, Autocannon HWT )
65 pts
Leman Russ Exterminator ( Lascannon, Plasma Cannon Sponsons )
170 pts



Armoured Shield Formation:

Commissar
25 pts
Infantry Squad ( Vox Caster, Autocannon HWT )
65 pts
Leman Russ Exterminator ( Lascannon, Plasma Cannon Sponsons )
170 pts



Seems reasonable? I want to mix some IG into my army because of their cheap yet reliable infantry, and proper long range punching force. But is Armoured Shield ( gives 4+ Cover to Infantry in 6' from LRBT ) a good option, or it will be better to field f.e. two blobs of 50-men Platoons armed to the teeth?

 Veskern wrote:
And I recently thought of one idea:

Blackspear Strike Force:

Strategium Command Team: 285 pts
Watch Captain ( Terminator Armour, Aegis Dominus )
Veterans ( 4 x Stalker Pattern Boltgun, Missile Launcher )

Aquilla Kill Team 355 pts
Veterans ( 3 x Combi-Melta, 2 x Frag Cannon )
Terminator ( Cyclon Missile Launcher )
Terminator ( Assault Cannon )
Terminator

Aquilla Kill Team 355 pts
Veterans ( 3 x Combi-Melta, 2 x Frag Cannon )
Terminator ( Cyclon Missile Launcher )
Terminator ( Assault Cannon )
Terminator


Dominatus Kill Team 320 pts
Veterans ( 4 x Shotgun, Infernus Heavy Bolter )
Vanguard Veterans ( x 5, 3 x SS, 2 x PW, Power Fist )





Armoured Shield Formation:

Commissar
25 pts
Infantry Squad ( Vox Caster, Autocannon HWT )
65 pts
Leman Russ Exterminator ( Lascannon, Plasma Cannon Sponsons )
170 pts



Armoured Shield Formation:

Commissar
25 pts
Infantry Squad ( Vox Caster, Autocannon HWT )
65 pts
Leman Russ Exterminator ( Lascannon, Plasma Cannon Sponsons )
170 pts



Seems reasonable? I want to mix some IG into my army because of their cheap yet reliable infantry, and proper long range punching force. But is Armoured Shield ( gives 4+ Cover to Infantry in 6' from LRBT ) a good option, or it will be better to field f.e. two blobs of 50-men Platoons armed to the teeth?

I think you may have forgotten to include the required Command and Auxilliary slots in the Black Spear Strike Force. At BARE minimum, you'll need a Dread and a Librarian. What you nearly basically have is a Watch Company. This is the best formation for DW granting rerolls against units containing Psykers, Warlords, and Independent Characters.

Is that Astra Formation the one that comes from the Start Collecting box? It's a great choice. I'd recommend upgrading to a Lascannon Hvy Weapon team though, just for those extra anti-tank shots to help you against Battle or Demi-Companies.

I think you may have forgotten to include the required Command and Auxilliary slots in the Black Spear Strike Force. At BARE minimum, you'll need a Dread and a Librarian. What you nearly basically have is a Watch Company. This is the best formation for DW granting rerolls against units containing Psykers, Warlords, and Independent Characters.

Is that Astra Formation the one that comes from the Start Collecting box? It's a great choice. I'd recommend upgrading to a Lascannon Hvy Weapon team though, just for those extra anti-tank shots to help you against Battle or Demi-Companies.

Silly me, you are right. Well, it's just to modify a list enough to squeeze a single Librarian ( which will go to Dominatus KT ) and one Dreddy - the one from Death Masque seems alright as it gets 6+ Inv save and is armed with Plasma Cannon.

Yep, I chose Armored Shield because it is both really easy buy ( you get two Start Collecting! boxes and bam, done ), and because this Formation just looks really good. 4+ Cover save in 6 inches around LRBT seems great, and offers considerable protection to Infantry. And, on top of that, it is quite cheap, yet helpful support for Deathwatch forces - for around 280 points I get 10 Guardsmen armed with Lascannon ( good call, it will be more helpful than Autocannon in my list ), an Commissar to give them reliable LD, and maxed-out Leman Russ to deal with tanks, Ded. Transports and other tough nuts

Why not go for the MT formation? It needs a few more points into it but endless deep strikes so long as you hide the Commisar somewhere ain't too bad. Hell, just because the basic squad comes back I buy the Plasma Pistol. Can't believe it!

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Why not go for the MT formation? It needs a few more points into it but endless deep strikes so long as you hide the Commisar somewhere ain't too bad. Hell, just because the basic squad comes back I buy the Plasma Pistol. Can't believe it!

Thought about that one as well, but the basing stumbling block is the fact that I need cheap, numerous support. "Elite" side of the army is completely taken over by the Deathwatch, and my list needs normal Dudesmen. Expendables, to say precisely.
Plus the fact that MT doesn't have one, very important thing - reliable long-range combat. Scions are more like a medium-short range commando unit to be put in DS or onboard a Valkyrie to be injected where they are needed most. And my list probably needs more of a "sweeping" force that would pick enemy DT and HS, creep onto Obejctives, and pin down some vexing units

I have a question. Is a Watch Company with four Aquila Kill Teams better than a Strategium Command Team (with a Watch Captain) and three Aquila Kill Teams?

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I have a question. Is a Watch Company with four Aquila Kill Teams better than a Strategium Command Team (with a Watch Captain) and three Aquila Kill Teams?

It depends on what do you want, really. If you just want "Moar Dakka!" then Aquilla Kill Teams are the best all the way through, reroll of 1s is just a beast and will always help in some manner.

But if you want to make some kind of specialized unit, then I think you would have more fun and options with Strategium Command. Look up on my army list and how I plan to build my SCT - four Stalker Boltguns, one Missile Launcher, and Terminator Cap armed with Aegis Dominus. That gives me eight Sniper shots of various flavours, one Blast / Solid S8 shot, and all that hidden behind 4+ Inv and 6+ FNP.

The Strategium Command Team would be a Captain and an Aquila Kill Team.

The added survivability seems like a better thing than the increased wounding.

I personally prefer the watch company and when I take a strategium I go with a librarian. The captain only gives a 6+ FNP so for every 6 wounds you will make 1 FNP and save one guy. Personally I would prefer to go with the guaranteed 4+ deny the witch bubble from the librarian.

I have been running my Death watch as a CAD.

I find this is the best way to operate with them as they can combat squad when they hit the ground. This gives you 2 squads to move around and target things with from 1 Drop Pod.

Having an Obsec Drop Pod sitting on an objective is very handy as its not the biggest threat that needs to be delt with. If they go for the men that popped out it's 1 more turn of denying the objective from them. If they target the Drop Pod the men that popped out will deal some damage back.

I have been running my squad like this all day in tournament and so far have been undefeated. Tomorrow will be interesting.

I have been considering running a single Aquila Team though to add some extra punch. I will probably load it up with a few Melta Guns/Bolter guys and 2 TH/SS Terminators. They can be my punchy assault unit.

We came first.

The Deathwatch own it.

OK so here is my first stab at a list;

CAD
HQ;
Artemis

Troops;
5 Vets in a drop-pod with 2x frag cannons

5 Vets in a drop-pod with 2x frag cannons

Fast Attack;
5 Bikes with power weapons & Melta Bombs

Corvus Blackstar with twin linked lascannon and auspex array

Aquila Kill Teams
5 Vets with 4 missile launchers, 2 terminators with cyclone missile launchers in a razorback with twin-linked lascannon.

5 Vets in a drop-pod with 2 frag cannons, 1 Chaplain, 1 Blackshield. 3 shotguns.

8 Veterans, 5 storm shields, 3 Infernus Heavy Bolters, 1 Librarian all in a rhino.

1996 points.

The missile team, Breacher squad and bikes start on the board. 2 Pods in turn 1. Artemis has a choice of which unit to start with. It's a fairly low model count but packs a lot of punch. My main though is target priority will be key.

 Tamereth wrote:
OK so here is my first stab at a list;

CAD
HQ;
Artemis

Troops;
5 Vets in a drop-pod with 2x frag cannons

5 Vets in a drop-pod with 2x frag cannons

Fast Attack;
5 Bikes with power weapons & Melta Bombs

Corvus Blackstar with twin linked lascannon and auspex array

Aquila Kill Teams
5 Vets with 4 missile launchers, 2 terminators with cyclone missile launchers in a razorback with twin-linked lascannon.

5 Vets in a drop-pod with 2 frag cannons, 1 Chaplain, 1 Blackshield. 3 shotguns.

8 Veterans, 5 storm shields, 3 Infernus Heavy Bolters, 1 Librarian all in a rhino.

1996 points.

The missile team, Breacher squad and bikes start on the board. 2 Pods in turn 1. Artemis has a choice of which unit to start with. It's a fairly low model count but packs a lot of punch. My main though is target priority will be key.

What's the point of the Razorback, exactly? Just for a bit of artillery? Your kill team won't be able to ride inside it, and there's much better sources of damage output than a Razorback for 75 points.

Waaaghpower wrote:

 Tamereth wrote:
OK so here is my first stab at a list;

CAD
HQ;
Artemis

Troops;
5 Vets in a drop-pod with 2x frag cannons

5 Vets in a drop-pod with 2x frag cannons

Fast Attack;
5 Bikes with power weapons & Melta Bombs

Corvus Blackstar with twin linked lascannon and auspex array

Aquila Kill Teams
5 Vets with 4 missile launchers, 2 terminators with cyclone missile launchers in a razorback with twin-linked lascannon.

5 Vets in a drop-pod with 2 frag cannons, 1 Chaplain, 1 Blackshield. 3 shotguns.

8 Veterans, 5 storm shields, 3 Infernus Heavy Bolters, 1 Librarian all in a rhino.

1996 points.

The missile team, Breacher squad and bikes start on the board. 2 Pods in turn 1. Artemis has a choice of which unit to start with. It's a fairly low model count but packs a lot of punch. My main though is target priority will be key.

What's the point of the Razorback, exactly? Just for a bit of artillery? Your kill team won't be able to ride inside it, and there's much better sources of damage output than a Razorback for 75 points.

I don't see the Razorback doing a lot.

You are better off putting some Veterans with Melta/Bolter in a Pod. If you have a CAD then you can have a 10 man squad with half melta and half Frag Cannons to drop in combat squad up and blow things apart.

Melta guns still pop tanks better then any other gun The Imperium has to offer.

Also running some empty Pods can bring in more Pods filled with killy stuff early game then when they they become available you can drop them on hard to reach objectives. Later to camp.

The razorback is there as an extra anti armour gun. It wouldn't stay with the missile squad. Most likely I'd run it up with the breachers rhino. No better cover for camping an objective than parking a pair of tanks between you and some mass shooting anti infanty unit. Which let's face it mass low ap fire is the biggest treat to that squad.
For 75 points what else would I get, 3 more vets and half a special weapon? Besides I'm looking to pick up the Xmas box to make up the rest of my force, and it has one in.

75pts = 3 more Frag Cannons

New favorite tactic of mine: using the beacon angelus to build a wall of drop pods. Happened yesterday where I deep struck in my 3 turn 1 pods. First came the captain with his beacon angelus. Then in come the next two pods to land perfectly in a straight line between the terrain bits preventing his counter charge. Yeah he destroyed the pods with his shooting and some units made it through, but when a wall of 35 point models eat 700+ points of shooting and protect the deathwatch guys behind them you know they made their pints back.

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
New favorite tactic of mine: using the beacon angelus to build a wall of drop pods. Happened yesterday where I deep struck in my 3 turn 1 pods. First came the captain with his beacon angelus. Then in come the next two pods to land perfectly in a straight line between the terrain bits preventing his counter charge. Yeah he destroyed the pods with his shooting and some units made it through, but when a wall of 35 point models eat 700+ points of shooting and protect the deathwatch guys behind them you know they made their pints back.

I will have to check this but I think that he needs to be in play at the beginning of the movement phase for the beacon to work.

Also for the single turn teleport as well as it happens at the beginning of the moment phase. So if he is not in play at the beginning of the phase then his ability can't be used.

 Sinji wrote:

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
New favorite tactic of mine: using the beacon angelus to build a wall of drop pods. Happened yesterday where I deep struck in my 3 turn 1 pods. First came the captain with his beacon angelus. Then in come the next two pods to land perfectly in a straight line between the terrain bits preventing his counter charge. Yeah he destroyed the pods with his shooting and some units made it through, but when a wall of 35 point models eat 700+ points of shooting and protect the deathwatch guys behind them you know they made their pints back.

I will have to check this but I think that he needs to be in play at the beginning of the movement phase for the beacon to work.

Also for the single turn teleport as well as it happens at the beginning of the moment phase. So if he is not in play at the beginning of the phase then his ability can't be used.

You are incorrect on the first part and correct on the second. The relic does not state anywhere that it requires the holder to be on the board at the start to use it where as every other type of beacon does specify that.

Current FAQ allows a beacon that just arrived to be used yo guide in units arriving just after in the same turn, so yes, this is a valid tactic.

SJ

After playing quite a few games now with my Deathwatch I have come to the conclusion that Running with Bolter/Special Weapon is good but Running a mix of Bolter/Special Weapon with Combi-Bolter/Shotgun is far better.

The reason being overwatch.

The Wall of Death from the Shotgun even though S3 has been able to thin out charging foes enough for me to be able to balance out combats enough to either win of give me time to get something in there to support with.

I was running 4x Melta/Bolter Vets per squads and even though they were dominating the Alpha Strike but when they were counter charged they got wiped quickly.

Taking 2x Melta/Bolter marines and 2x Combi-Melta/Shotgun Marines also means they will be far better at taking a counter charge.

The other reason I like is this if I feel the need to combat squad due to a list with a lot of vehicles I can break the squad with the 2 Combi-Melta off with the Frags. Once they had fulfilled their duty as tank Bustas they can carry on to their next roll (If they are still alive.

I will give this some play testing along with some Combi-Plasmas (Because sometimes you just need AP2) Once done I will get back with some results

So we all agree from experience that deathwatch is very strong @ alpha striking with pods and whatnots, I personally melta-ed and slagged countless vehicles, knights, land raiders, boyz, tanks...etc.

Recently I am looking into meching with my deathwatch marines. So with meching with rhinos, if you have a squad of 5 with at least 2 frag cannons, that essentially gives you a 4 shots of str 7 ap 3 per rhino, far better than razorback or predator. If you have 6 rhinos or more, you essentially have 6 apcs that is firing a total of 24 str 7 ap 3 shots a turn! If it it wrecks, just dismount and do damage!

Just a thought.

So is the consensus that you can or can't use the Beacon Angelis's teleport ability (choose a model and bring it within 6") able to be used on the first turn or not? (Assuming the character who has it came down in a drop pod turn 1)

 fr3ddy wrote:
So we all agree from experience that deathwatch is very strong @ alpha striking with pods and whatnots, I personally melta-ed and slagged countless vehicles, knights, land raiders, boyz, tanks...etc.

Recently I am looking into meching with my deathwatch marines. So with meching with rhinos, if you have a squad of 5 with at least 2 frag cannons, that essentially gives you a 4 shots of str 7 ap 3 per rhino, far better than razorback or predator. If you have 6 rhinos or more, you essentially have 6 apcs that is firing a total of 24 str 7 ap 3 shots a turn! If it it wrecks, just dismount and do damage!

Just a thought.

I have played them this way before. It's pretty fun. Their best performance was vs some dug-in Orks sending SAG and Loota shots back at me while I did the Rhino dump. A single squad of DW in Rhino alongside three more Inquisition Rhinos and Razorbacks with bolter/HSL henchmen inside, plus a podding Dreadnought. It seemed to me at least in this game that the alpha strike did not need to be huge and cheezy. Just that one dread was disruptive and distracting enough to allow all four rhinos Cruising Speed/Smoke to make it into rapid-fire range where the special issue ammo and other dirty tricks could really shine. Let's face it: S7AP3 is great and you'll get a decent amount of hits but it's not going to be enough by itself. Not super reliable at breaking down vehicles, and not a lot of xenos are going to wave power armor equivalent in your face. When we get so outnumbered, you need the frag template to mop up those bodies. So take the shots out of the rhino hatch if you can, but be safe about it, because you really get the most bang for your buck up close with most of the this codex's weapons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Any feedback on the new Battleforce box Watchblade Task Force? Battlescribe doesn't have have the formation in its data yet and I'm curious about the formation benefits.

Mostly just curious because I need a few more bodies but I don't know if I need Termies and Bikers AND a Rhino unless the Formation is really that good.

Everyone gets hit and run.

 Buzzdady wrote:
So is the consensus that you can or can't use the Beacon Angelis's teleport ability (choose a model and bring it within 6") able to be used on the first turn or not? (Assuming the character who has it came down in a drop pod turn 1)

That's the current understanding, yes.

I picked up a copy of Codex Imperial Agents, and I have to ask, is the kill team detachment in there a better option than anything in the Deathwatch Codex.

Basically it lets you take a Vet squad, and get the Aquila kill team benefits, for free. No need to take a terminator, librarian etc just the vets.

Is there a way to use this. Instead of running a cad just squads like this maybe?

Does the squad get transport options?

Plus the Terminator isn't a bad deal. It gives Fearless and lets you eat AP3 weaponry.

It can take a black star but not a rhino, razorback or drop pod. Other than that seems to be a copy and paste of the deathwatch codex entry.
no drop pod kills it for my list.