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Hi all,

I'm a returning player (started Eldar back in 2nd edition) and thinking of starting an Iyanden army. Being true to fluff is important to me, having a mix of units, and generally just having fun. Not looking to enter tournaments but just to play games at the local club where I'll be moving to in a month or two.

So here's my list with an alternative afterwards. Looking forward to hearing people's thoughts!

HQ:

1) Shadow Council (140)
2 x Spiritseers, one with Wraithforge stone (30)
= 170


TROOPS:

1) 5 x Wraithguard (160)
D-Scythes (50)
Wave Serpent (115), holo-fields (15)
= 340

2) 5 x Wraithguard (160)
D-Scythes (50)
Wave Serpent (115), holo-fields (15)
= 340

3) 8 x Dire Avengers (104)
Exarch (10), power weapon + shimmer shield (20)
Wave Serpent (115), holo-fields (15), twin linked bright lance (5)
= 269

4) 8 x Dire Avengers (104)
Exarch (10), power weapon + shimmer shield (20)
Wave Serpent (115), holo-fields (15), twin linked bright lance (5)
= 269


FAST ATTACK:

1) 6 x Swooping Hawks (96)
Exarch (10), sunrifle (15), marksman's eye (10)


HEAVY SUPPORT:

1) Wraithlord (120)
Ghostglaive (5), 2 x bright lances (40)
= 165

2) Wraithlord (120)
Ghostglaive (5), scatter laser (20), star cannon (20)
= 165


TOTAL: 1,849



Alternatives:

To reduce potential 'serpent spam' and to increase number of wraith units to increase fluff and model count:

Remove wave serpents from Dire Avengers (+270).

Add five more Wraithguard or Wraithblades (-160) and another Spiritseer to run with them for battle focus (-70).

Leaves 40 pts, so maybe more Swooping Hawks. Maybe Soulshrive.

A second option instead of adding more Wraithguard is to add rangers and wind rider jetbikes, but not sure how fluffy this is.



My thinking here is that the army attacks in two halves, with a unit of Wraithguard and Dire Avengers working together on one or two targets at a time. Wraithlords either split to work with half of the army or are somewhere between the two, supporting, being a threat together and being supported by the Spiritseer with the Wraithforge Stone. One of the Wraithlords (probably the anti infantry, scatter laser and star cannon one) would be the warlord.

Spiritseers run with Wraithguard units. I like the look and rules for Dire Avengers so wanted to include them as I love the blade storm rule and the idea do massed shuriken fire. Also the reason why I kept shuriken cannon turrets on wave serpents. Not bothered about twin linking serpent shield as personally I think that's not 100% in the spirit of the rules.

Added in swooping hawks for two reasons:
1) This army, unlike regular Eldar, isn't as tricksy and surprising, so it needs either hawks or spiders for surprise attacks. Also useful for crowd control due to the army's low model count and emergency vehicle popping with haywire.

2) Until they bring out new models for warp spiders I'm not buying them. They were around in the 90s when I first started out with 40k and, IMHO, need a refresh. How good models look has always affected the way I play with them.


So what are your thoughts? Knowing my general plan, would 4 serpents be spam? The plan might be hampered if the Dire Avengers and Wraithguard aren't together, but maybe if the DAs battle focus up and the wave serpent Wraithguard zoom up later it might work. If going with this alternative and introducing a third wraith unit, I'm not sure which to go for but am leaning towards a Wraithblade unit with axes. I really want a snooty army but there is something to be said for counter assault. In my current plan it's all about attack then taking objectives when they all lie dead, but I think I may need a rapid response element.

What is your anti-air?

Not sure. Any advice on that? We don't seem to have any interceptor stuff like the Tau do except Crimson Hunters and Dark Reapers.

You've got plenty of ant air in the wave serpents I would say.

Things I wouldn't bother with:

Marksman's eye on the Hawk Exarch is not worth 10 pts unless you can think of no-where else to put those 10 pts.

I'd also think about a Wraith Knight over the 2 x Wraithlords. He's just so much faster and harder to close down than the Wraithlords. Because he's such a threat and can keep up with your Serpents he makes for excellent target saturation, helping to take fire off of your Serpents. Additionally he also fulfils a role in the army that nothing else does. He takes care of Heavy AT, MCs and can save your troops from getting bogged down in CC. The WLs can do this too but are just so much slower.

He can be your Warlord too, which can be pretty win.

Hmm yeah you're right. Marksman's Eye was literally a last 10pt dump, although better use of the points could potentially go on the HQs.

My first thought was that the wave serpents would be good enough anti air, although I guess this is really only true if I used four? Just slightly worried four serpents may be seen by some as cheesy, although Imperial Guard have their mech lists and pay the appropriate points so maybe it's ok?

May find points for shuriken cannons under some of the serpents - maybe the ones with the Wraithguard in, to really pack that punch against threats.

Which army are you going for? Fast? Sneeky? orky?

If going to fast then drop everything and start with a jetbike farseer, next buy 6 Ws fill them with min squads of whatever takes your fancy, then for fast I personaly love crimson hunters (the models are awesome and as a anti flyer they are the best) so go with 1-3 and if any room left a squad of 3 vypers with double cannons shreds stuff almost as good as DE (the jetseer can guide them 24" away making them broken), next for heavy depending on how many points go for 1-3 wraith knights (depends on what you like) and then full rest with war walkers with anything as long as its double lances or double scatter lasers.

This is the best kind of list for comptitive players, WSs are transports that like to act as tanks, Wraithknights are small titans that smash any (except deamon lords) in CC and stock WLs can murder tanks or MCs with some good rolling.

For 1500pts a competitive wraith list would look like this:

Hq-Farseer MotLG bike=155pts

Hq-Spiritseer spirit stone of anathan=85pts

Troops-wraithguard x5 d-scyths=210pts
Transport-Ws SL/HF=135pts

Troops-wraithguard x5 cannons=160pts
Transport-Ws SL/HF=135

Heavy-Wraithknight=240pts

Fast-Crimson hunter exarch=160pts

That is the core of your army after that anything you want is a go.

 Bhazakhain wrote:
Hmm yeah you're right. Marksman's Eye was literally a last 10pt dump, although better use of the points could potentially go on the HQs.

My first thought was that the wave serpents would be good enough anti air, although I guess this is really only true if I used four? Just slightly worried four serpents may be seen by some as cheesy, although Imperial Guard have their mech lists and pay the appropriate points so maybe it's ok?

May find points for shuriken cannons under some of the serpents - maybe the ones with the Wraithguard in, to really pack that punch against threats.

I run 2 x Wave Serpents at 1850 pts, along with a good sized unit of Warp Spiders, and a jetlock find them plenty good AA. 4 x Wave Serpents should be equally good, especially if you really maneuver well and get rear armour shots. Although I've just looked back at your list and realised you're not running Dakka Serpents. I'd re-write the list to look like this, to maximise your units and cover all of the bases:

HQ:

1) Shadow Council (140)
2 x Spiritseers,
= 140


TROOPS:

1) 5 x Wraithguard (160)
D-Scythes (50)
Wave Serpent, TL Scatter Laser + Shuricannon (130), holo-fields (15)
= 385

2) 5 x Wraithguard (160)
D-Scythes (50)
Wave Serpent, TL Scatter Laser + Shuricannon (130), holo-fields (15)
= 385

3) 8 x Dire Avengers (104)
Exarch (10), power weapon + shimmer shield (20)
Wave Serpent, TL Scatter Laser + Shuricannon (130), holo-fields (15)
= 279

4) 8 x Dire Avengers (104)
Exarch (10), power weapon + shimmer shield (20)
Wave Serpent, TL Scatter Laser + Shuricannon (130), holo-fields (15)
= 279


FAST ATTACK:

1) 6 x Swooping Hawks (96)
Exarch (10), sunrifle (15)

HEAVY SUPPORT:

Wraith Knight - 240


Which I work out as 1829 but I could have ballsed that up somewhere.

You could consider dropping one of the Dire Avenger units and trying to get some Warp Spiders and some Jetbikes in there but the list above is perfectly fine. If you'd like to see what my 1850pt Iyanden list looks like, for comparison or to mine for ideas PM me and we'll have a chat.

Thanks for this. Really useful! Looks like good changes you made. It seems a lot of people are suggesting Wraithknights. Are Wraithlords useless? I just see Wraithknights as meant for larger battles, and it seems every army has one at the moment so not sure whether or not to field one.

It occurred to me that it might be good to try and include a Fire Prism or Nightspinner for crowd control somehow too.

Wraithlords are not really bad but their damage output rather low. I'd consider Warwalkers (with dual scatterlasers) instead. Much more bang for the bucks.

Thing about the Wraithlords is that a Wraithknight outshines them in all aspects. Speed, resiliency and offense. I can't begin to explain the utility of 2 S10 AP2 guns that ID on a 6. It's always a game-changer and sometimes it's a deal-breaker(last game I ID'd a Tyranid Flyrant before he got a chance to take off).

As far as Serpent spam goes, one thing to note is that a Farseer is largerly reduntant in such a list, as he isn't as much of a force multiplier as in a more balanced list. Serpents TL themselves and everything else is in transports, so can't benefit from his powers. Using him with a MotlG offensively is alright, but imho not worth spending 160 points on.

That said, 4 Serpents isn't spam in your case, because you use them primarily as transports for your expensive troops, not as battle-tanks with a troop tax. That doesn't mean people won't gripe about it. People gripe about my lists, which are specifically tailored to be less snowballing and more fun to play. Doesn't stop them from complaining, but neither does it stop them from playing me.

As far as your list goes, you have too many points spent on upgrades. Dire Avengers will be safe inside the Serpent, so they don't need the Shimmershield. Yes, it might ocassionally be useful, but you can spend those points on something that will be useful more often. Also, take Scatterlasers on your Wave Serpents. It'll TL the rest of the guns(including the Serpent Shield) and it's a great multiplier for its points.

As others have stated all Wave Serpents must have Scatter Lasers just too good to pass up.

Also Dire Avengers should never be taken in units of more than 5. They exist purely as the cheapest way to get a Wave Serpent. Other than that take guardians instead. Far more damage output for the points and the down sides of survivability and range are basically irrelevant if you're in a Serpent.

Avengers are a great unit and with a little skill and patience, always do the business for me.

The thing about the WK is its ability to keep up with the Wave Serpents. With WLs, you either hang back with the Serpents and wait for the WLs to catch up, or you attack a bit at a time. An enemy can prioritise your faster units and shoot at your Wraithlords once the main threat has been taken care of. With the Wk - no suck luck. His presence helps to keep your transports alive by diluting the AT firepower that the enemy really has to put into him, or suffer the consequences.

I run two Nightspinners at 1850 pts and they're just superb. Able to hit anything on the table with a S7/8 rending barrage. Great at clearing out tank parks, crisis suits and for pinning low/average Ld shooters and the torrent fire mode comes in useful later on in the game.

I'd consider swapping out a Dire Avenger unit for 2 barebones Nightspinners and using any remaining points to make your remaining Dire Avenger unit a full strength one.

Sadly, the game has kinda passed the WL by. His only advantage over the knight is his character status. Unfortunately his lack of mobility is a problem. If he had been retrofitted with the WK jump pack he would see the table reasonably, but now he is buried in the very deep well of the eldar Heavy FoC.

It is my feeling that the WK, the night spinner, walkers and dark reapers all outshine him almost all the time. It makes me sad since I love the models and played them tirelessly precodex.

WLs have their place in small games though, anyone finds it hard to kill 3 T8 MCs in 750pts.

Hmm thanks guys, this is really useful feedback. If I took a Wraithknight I'd be sorely tempted to outfit it with a sun cannon etc. I know this could start to make the army a little light on AV. Tempted to go varied and also take a Nightspinner AND Fire Prism. Think two units of aspect warriors might be a bit much so you're right in removing a unit of Dire Avengers and not taking shimmer shields. I love the look of the unit but I think it's just the idea of a wall of shruriken that I like.

Windriders might need to be included as well - it's just keeping the fluffy balance here to have enough 'wraith' to benefit from the various Iyanden powers etc.

I think WLs would be viable in an Iyanden footslog list where they can benefit from battle focus from the spirit seer.

Does anyone think there should be three wraith guard / blade units?

I actually found loads of old models from when I previously collected Eldar, and have guardians I could use here with platforms. 2 tanks too, but unfortunately an 'old' fire prism and a Falcon. Can't find bits online to convert them into wave serpents unfortunately : /

One question I have for you all though. To make proper use of the voice of twilight power should I take a unit of wraith blades? Not sure which of the two to go with, but I can't decide whether, if I took a unit of them, to have them in a wave serpent or just a larger unit battle focussing across the battlefield.

Wraith blades are terrible and Voice of Twilight does almost nothing for then. So no you shouldn't take them ever.

Voice of Twilight is your go-to power for Scythe Guard.

Honstly with that much AP2 Flame around, you really don't need the suncannon upgrade.

Jetbikes are definitely very good Troops to have, I would definitely recommend a couple of min sized squads to boost out your scoring units.

Stay clear of any CC Wraiths and personally I think 2 units of Wraiths and a Knight is plenty to convey the Iyanden feel of the army. There are some things you may miss out on - I for one don't bother with any of the Iyanden Wargear, prefering instead to go with main codex for the Mantle. WLTs I either go with Strategic from the main rulebook if my Farseer is my Warlord (Most of the time, as it allows my Wraithknight to get really stuck in and he tends not to worry too much about being killed with a 2+ re-rollable cover save) or the Iyanden ones if my WK is my Warlord - mainly vs Tau or lots of ignore cover weapons.

CC Wraiths are just too slow and you'll never see a proper return on your points. D-Scythe WG are better shooters, better at capturing and holding objectives (Because no-one ever wants to charge or come near to them!) and often kill more when charged than the CC Wraiths would because of the wall of death. Your WK is there to pull any Scytheguard out of an assault that you're unlikely to win/ get bogged down in and gets there a damned sight quicker as well as filling in the AT/AMC requirements that your list otherwise lacks.

I would seriously re-consider using a Fire Prism as a source of AT too. It's one shot at BS4. I've pretty much given up on the things - I used to run 2. Trust me, once you go Night Spinner you'll never look back. S 8 vs vehicles and always hits side armour as well as being an infantry killer. All of which it can do without ever once exposing itself to enemy fire with pinning being the cherry on the cake. Forcing the enemy to come to you to shut down the spinners really helps to close the distance between your opposition and your AP2 Flamers

If you've already got the model, I say give the Prism a go but I suspect that given a few games you'll be proxying it as a Nightspinner. You can get Nightspinner turrets from bits and kits but you often need to wait for them to re-stock.

Hmm well fair enough. I hope to find a use for Wraithlords as I love the models but maybe a knight is better for starters. I'll need to jump on the magnetising bandwagon so load outs can change. Having watched a lot of battle reports online I'm not up for proxying or playing anything unpainted so will just collect slowly I guess.

If collecting in stages, how would you break down the list into, say, 1,000 pts, 1,500 pts and 1,850pts?

I thinks it's a shame there isn't more use for a hemlock wraithfighter too. In terms of tactics, I'd want to support each Wraithguard unit with another unit. Right now I'm thinking 10 man guardian units with platform in wave serpent x 2. That's a lot of focused anti infantry. Would defo throw a warlock in with those guys too.

 Arbiter wrote:
Which army are you going for? Fast? Sneeky? orky?

If going to fast then drop everything and start with a jetbike farseer, next buy 6 Ws fill them with min squads of whatever takes your fancy, then for fast I personaly love crimson hunters (the models are awesome and as a anti flyer they are the best) so go with 1-3 and if any room left a squad of 3 vypers with double cannons shreds stuff almost as good as DE (the jetseer can guide them 24" away making them broken), next for heavy depending on how many points go for 1-3 wraith knights (depends on what you like) and then full rest with war walkers with anything as long as its double lances or double scatter lasers.

This is the best kind of list for comptitive players, WSs are transports that like to act as tanks, Wraithknights are small titans that smash any (except deamon lords) in CC and stock WLs can murder tanks or MCs with some good rolling.

For 1500pts a competitive wraith list would look like this:

Hq-Farseer MotLG bike=155pts

Hq-Spiritseer spirit stone of anathan=85pts

Troops-wraithguard x5 d-scyths=210pts
Transport-Ws SL/HF=135pts

Troops-wraithguard x5 cannons=160pts
Transport-Ws SL/HF=135

Heavy-Wraithknight=240pts

Fast-Crimson hunter exarch=160pts

That is the core of your army after that anything you want is a go.

Did you not read anything he said in the opening blurb?



Automatically Appended Next Post:
OP: If fluffy Iyanden i'd go for all Wraithguard and have no DAs at all.

Wraithguard, Dscythes, Wave Serpents, Seers and Wraithknights. That's all.

Thanks Asmodai, good clean simple feedback!

I agree that there's too many of the living in the list I originally posted. Maybe remove both DA units on favour of a third Wraithguard or Wraithblade unit. I'm quite keen to include a Farseer with this third wraith unit. Any extra points can go on Windriders etc. maybe rangers?

Why is that fluffy? Iyanden don't use all Wraiths, just more than most. 2 squads and a WK as well as spiritseers for HQ is generally more than most. and definitely has a Wraith - low manpower theme running through it.

For me I think a good mix of living Elite Eldar, mechanised units and a large number of Wraiths is much more fluffy for a craftworld decimated by a Hive Fleet. It's also more nuanced than the one dimensional charicature, ab-absurdium that is the all Wraith list.

This is why I'm still tempted to have one unit of guardians or Dire Avengers. Would defo have either hawks or spiders I think.

Sorry, you ninja'ed me.

I was replying to Amodai. I like the WG/Avengers or Guardians. It's fluffy without being OTT/ charicature esq and has more variety which is more fun to play with and against and also works quite well.

Haha yeah I think you're right. I'm not gonna be in it for min units with serpent spam. All about fun - a few favourite units, fluff etc. I think d-scythes and a wall of shuriken firepower is c appealing!

Just wanna find a place for a wraithlord or two ideally.

Think I'll paint up the aspect warriors fairly dark and neutral so I can use them if I make an ulthwe army when that supplement eventually emerges.