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I think I broke 40K by constructing an assault immune “Firebase”. Let me explain…

I built a Necron/Tau twin-linked list to challenge some friends to a friendly game of 6th edition Warhammer 40,000. In my list I included my patented Tau “Firebase” consisting of an ADL (Aegis Defense Line), a full squad of 12 Tau Fire Warriors, a Tau Cadre Fireblade, and upgraded the ADL with a Quad Gun. On the Necron side I took two large squads of scarabs, and that is when I got the idea to hide them behind the ADL.

Picture an ADL stretched out in a straight line along the edge of my deployment zone. Directly behind the ADL a string of Necron scarab bases stretching the length of the ADL, and behind the scarabs a layer of Tau Fire Warriors stretching the length of the ADL.

Shooting at this “Firebase” the Tau get their 4+ cover saves from the ADL or 2+ if they go to ground. The Necron scarabs are immune to shooting from 90% of enemy units because they are small enough to be completely hidden from sight behind the ADL.

The assault is where I think I broke the game. For example let us say that you are a mob of Ork Boyz that wants to assault this “Firebase” right up the middle and over the ADL. So you declare an assault against the closest enemy unit, the Necron scarabs behind the ADL. This is where I point out page 20, column 2, paragraph 7 of the main rule book which states:
“A unit can never declare a charge against a unit that it cannot reach, nor can it declare a charge against a unit that it cannot see.”

So because the Ork Boyz cannot see the scarabs over the ADL to assault them, you instead declare an assault against the Tau behind the ADL and the Scarabs. Now I direct you to page 21, column 2, paragraph 3 of the main rule book which states:
“Charging models still cannot move through friendly or enemy models, cannot pass through gaps narrower than their base, and cannot move into base contact with enemy models from a unit they are not charging.”

Since there are no gaps in the line of scarabs in front of the Tau that your Orks can pass through you cannot declare an assault against the Tau. There you have it a Firebase that is immune to a frontal assault. The only conceivable way to break the line is to flank it so that at least one of the scarab bases is visible to at least one attacker. Another way around it is deep striking behind it or using some taller model (i.e. a Wraith knight) to initiate an assault. Alternatively you could just blast the snot out of the Firebase with templates and flyers.

What do you think? Did I miss something? Is there another rule that addresses this situation? Would you propose a house rule to patch the issue? Do you think it is fine the way it is and should just be played through? Please leave your comments and let me know what you find.

Also please explain any acronyms or lingo that you use. It is extremely frustrating to new players to sort through the goboldy goop. Thanks


Key:
ADL (Aegis Defense ADL)

Yep you can charge block with scarabs.

then templates(blast barrage flamer of any shape and size) happened. just target the fire warriors in front to hit the scarabs, then charge through any gaps.

if the fire warriors survive though the counter charge will be glorious.

I do not see anything 'rule breaking' about combining two common tactics to gain an advantage, so what is the real question here?

I just seems too over powered to be right so I wanted a second opinion before I went to table with it. Usually I miss something in a FAQ or errata that patch these kinds of combos.

Thanks for the reply

Its not even OP. no need to FAQ or anything.

Its a nice combo with low lying models, and a very good fence against assault. but this is 6th edition not as many people depend on assault to win its all shooting. generally speaking if you invested that much points for a non moving 30" shooting bubble then you probably dont have much in the way of anything else.

not to mention you can easily get barraged to death. which many people are taking now.

Edit: As below tactics forum is where you should ask.

Understandable concern, those Frequently Asked Questions are a pain in my arse as well. I will let others ponder over this in detail, as you quoted page and paragraph which is usually a good sign that you know what you are doing. If you want some tactical insight I would suggest taking the question over to the other forums as they have people more experienced with how things play out on the table top. I can see a few flaws in what you are planning, but this is not the right part of Dakkadakka for such conversations.

To right, and yes I posted this intentionally in the rules section to make sure I got the rules right.

If I want to debate the tactical viability of this combo I will make a separate post in the appropriate tactics section.

I play against several players in my gaming group that, despite 6th edition favoring shooting, take a lot of assault units. (Blood Angels, Dark Eldar, Tyranids) and I like that they stay true to form with their factions theme. Worth mentioning so you know where I am coming from.

I don't think it's as powerful as all that. Keep in mind a couple of things. First off, if you want to get nitpicky, then models can still see through the fire slits in the ADL, which will extend the distance that enemies can be at and still shoot the scarabs (the scarab base goes pretty far back, even if they ARE short). Second, Allied Tau and Necrons treat one another as enemies, which means the Firewarriors have to 'leave room for Jesus' between them and the scarabs. That's going to place the Firewarriors pretty far back, and it isn't going to take a terrible lot to target them without the ADL obscuring 25% of the models.

The way the FAQs are currently structured, templates can generate hits against models they cannot see, but cannot allocate wounds to any model that is out of LOS. Blasts, however, can and do hit units that are out of LOS with no problem. In addition, there are several units in the game that don't need LOS at all to target their victims (Grey Knights purgation squads, Smart Missiles, etc).

It's certainly an idea worth using, don't get me wrong, but I wouldn't hold out any illusions of it being game-breaking. (If you do want to use it, I'd keep a couple of Spyders around to fill in any gaps that get popped in your line as well as deter assaults a little more.) Good luck with it!

You could tweak this a bit to avoid the 'room for jesus' effect. Its very legal to assemble a fire warrior team that is comprised of all kneeling models. Place them intentionally so they cannot be seen through the slits at a distance and spread them thin. A 12 man fire warrior team can be 23.5" long and still be in coherency.

Also keep in mind that with the fire warriors so far back behind the ADL, almost everything they shoot at will gain the 4+ cover.

Models within 2" of the ADL would be able to see some of the scarabs with ease (assuming you model them on their pegs as the stock model and are not MFA by making them flatter than normal)

Also, Seeing the Firewarriors would be ok, and flamers would make short work of the scarabs when shooting the fire warriors. Same with blasts.

With the META being overly shooty, this seems like a non-tactic.

Also: tank shock, Deep strike, jump packs...

You can do the same thing with grots and skyshields/adls.

There should be a thread of mine from about a year ago about this.

Assaultblocking works, until they jump over you or plow over you with a tank.

Or... You know... Go around.

Or bring flyers that can see over the ADL, or shoot the scarabs from an elevated position in a ruin, or do one of the countless other things that can get LOS to shoot.

Despite all the "it's easy to deal with" responses, it's pretty stupid that an assaulting unit is apparently turned around because there happens to be a target unit that they couldn't see between them and their target. Why the assaulting unit wouldn't (or couldn't) just assault into the scarabs (in this example) once they started to climb over the ADL rather than turn around and go back to where they started is pretty ridiculous.

Yes, I know, basing anything that happens in this game on realism is bound to lead to frustration. The OP is correct that this is something that is "broken" or at the very least a loophole, no matter how under or over powered it happens to be.

If using the stock ADL you can see the scarabs and assault them. Slits in the fence.

Also worth noting when playing against BA as you said, jump packs kinda go right over them.

It's a silly thing but doesn't really do much against most armies.

I think it's way too expensive. Another way you could stop anybody from assaulting you is shoot them dead with more firewarriors.

A little cheesy and un-fluffy for my personal tastes but fair and square in all aspects. I feel like it could be relatively easily countered. Template weapons and DS/Outflanking units will deny this formation.

Most competitive lists can deal with this quite handily one way or another, so not really that 'broken' in regards to power level.

Now it is a little 'broken' in relation to how the battle SHOULD happen rules aside...but hey...that's just GW.

I outflank with some guys and win forever.

Or shoot at the tau with some tasty ignores cover

Eh, completely legit strategy, but I dislike it. Would real orks actually be thwarted by such a tactic? They would get a nasty surprise as they leaped over the defense line into piles of scarabs they didn't notice, but would never be completely unable to assault.
It breaks immersion, which is something I rather value when playing. If all I cared about was tactics n' stuff, I wouldn't spend hours collecting and painting tiny men and instead would go play chess.
Not that this really matters . Like I said, legit strategy. But for a friendly game? Really?

Bojazz wrote:
Also keep in mind that with the fire warriors so far back behind the ADL, almost everything they shoot at will gain the 4+ cover.

How? It doesn't grant that to people on both sides.

True Line of Sight rules do.

Dat Guy wrote:

Bojazz wrote:
Also keep in mind that with the fire warriors so far back behind the ADL, almost everything they shoot at will gain the 4+ cover.

How? It doesn't grant that to people on both sides.

Yes it does. You only claim a cover save from it by being obscured by the ADL which happens regardless of which side you're on

broken=laughable! any heavy flamer unit make easy work of this, as any jump/jet pack unit, outflank unit, flyer bomber.