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Came up in a game last night. Did a search and all the threads were old and would have been necromancy, and were all pretty short.

Both arguments were pretty solid. I was for option 1. But option two was compelling because that's the order for doing math for modifiers.

Rapid fire weapons only have one range. So there is only one range it can effect.

To be more clear: it can only be option 1
A Bolter has a 24" range.
It can fire twice at half range, BUT it is still a 24" range weapon.
At no point is it's range ever halved to 12".

 grendel083 wrote:
Rapid fire weapons only have one range. So there is only one range it can effect.

To be more clear: it can only be option 1
A Bolter has a 24" range.
It can fire twice at half range, BUT it is still a 24" range weapon.
At no point is it's range ever halved to 12".

QFT; and how I voted, Range-6, 1/2 total for Nightshields(so 9" doubletap)

As before, the community seems to feel that in this case, the normal order of operations (when applied to characteristics as opposed to weapon profiles) is reversed. You subtract the 6 inches first, and then divide.

That's incorrect.
The range of the weapon is what Night Shield alters. Rapid Fire is (Range)/2 to get an extra shot. Therefore with Night Shield involved it's (Range-6)/2.

There's no reversal - you're under the incorrect impression that The Rapid Fire range is what's being altered when, in fact, it's the weapons range.

Basically this argument stems from a misunderstanding of Rapid fire. People see it as a special rule that activates at a range hence people referring to "rapidfiring a weapon". Rather than just a weapon type that determines how many shots you get at full and then half range. The weapons range is the only thing that night shields effect. A weapon with the rapid fire type will still take 2 shots at half that new range.

rigeld2 wrote:
That's incorrect.
The range of the weapon is what Night Shield alters. Rapid Fire is (Range)/2 to get an extra shot. Therefore with Night Shield involved it's (Range-6)/2.

There's no reversal - you're under the incorrect impression that The Rapid Fire range is what's being altered when, in fact, it's the weapons range.

So, how far do you believe a boltgun can be from a Night Shielded vehicle and still fire two shots?

 Jimsolo wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
That's incorrect.
The range of the weapon is what Night Shield alters. Rapid Fire is (Range)/2 to get an extra shot. Therefore with Night Shield involved it's (Range-6)/2.

There's no reversal - you're under the incorrect impression that The Rapid Fire range is what's being altered when, in fact, it's the weapons range.

So, how far do you believe a boltgun can be from a Night Shielded vehicle and still fire two shots?

9". It's not belief, it's fact.
And it's not a reversal of anything - as I've explained. Arguing otherwise stems from a misunderstanding of Rapid Fire.

So...I said that you apply the -6 first...then you check half range for rapid fire...resulting in a 9 inch range for firing a second shot. (I didn't expound to the final part of the sentence, I thought saying subtract first then divide covered it)

Are you even disagreeing with me? We're both saying you rapid fire 9 inches at a Night Shielded vehicle, right? Or am I missing something?

Thanks guys.

These are better descriptions than I was able to explain during the game. Plus in friendly games I try not to debate during the game, if we disagree I'll generally play it the opponents way then look up rules afterwards. Tourneys are a different story as winning or losing has consequences.

 Jimsolo wrote:
So...I said that you apply the -6 first...then you check half range for rapid fire...resulting in a 9 inch range for firing a second shot. (I didn't expound to the final part of the sentence, I thought saying subtract first then divide covered it)

Are you even disagreeing with me? We're both saying you rapid fire 9 inches at a Night Shielded vehicle, right? Or am I missing something?

I was disagreeing with you saying "the normal order of operations is reversed" and with your implication that it is incorrect ("the community seems to feel").

rigeld2 wrote:

 Jimsolo wrote:
So...I said that you apply the -6 first...then you check half range for rapid fire...resulting in a 9 inch range for firing a second shot. (I didn't expound to the final part of the sentence, I thought saying subtract first then divide covered it)

Are you even disagreeing with me? We're both saying you rapid fire 9 inches at a Night Shielded vehicle, right? Or am I missing something?

I was disagreeing with you saying "the normal order of operations is reversed" and with your implication that it is incorrect ("the community seems to feel").

I see. I don't feel that it's incorrect at all. I also believe that 9 inches is the correct way to do it. However, in the thread I linked to, there was some confusion, so I was trying to establish that my answer was rooted not in my own opinion but the opinion of the community.

JimSolo;
Think of the Rapid Fire Weapon Type as a If/Then statement, as calculating the half-way point does not change the Maximum Range.

Its not

RANGE-6/2

and you do the math in the wrong order.
It is

(RANGE-6)/2

and you do the math in the right order. The reason for the parenthesis is that rapid fire is always half range, not half unmodified range. If you have something that modifies the range you need to do that 1st so you know what half of that is. Also Rapid fire is not its own range, its always a calculated variable.