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Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




This is my attempt at a fun all-comers list for Tzeentch Daemons in 1650pts can stretch higher by switching some stuff up and adding another herald and troops choice so here goes:

Broken into sections

3 Tzeentch Herals, Psy 3, 3 conjuration staff (makes 9!)
3x 18 pink horrors
Aegis Defence line 896pts ------ Heralds + horrors kick out 7d6 deniable attacks at str 6 rerolling misses

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2x3 flamers of Tzeentch 138pts ------ anti-horde/aegis defence

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3x3 Screechers Of Tzeentch 225pts ------ ...fun?

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2 Chariots with Exalted Flamer w/lesser reward
Soulgrinder with Phlem & Daemon of tzeentch 390pts ------ anti sky/MEQ/Vehicle

I wanted something flavourful, fun and has a little bit of competitive value to it. What do you guys think?
   
Made in us
Esteemed Veteran Space Marine







Looks interesting, but you might want to consider a Lord of Change or Daemon Prince to act as a warlord. Love that you put some thought into ensuring the horrors are in multiples of 9 (maybe you should do the same with the Screamers, one squad of 9, would probably be more effective).

I'd combine the flamers into a single squad as well. Thanks to the warpflame rule, you really need to overwhelm your target to ensure nothing survives when the flamers hit them. Since all Tzeentch attacks have Warpflame, you need to concentrate on one enemy unit at a time and make sure it dies before moving to another.

One word regarding the Burning Chariot. The rules as written are very muddy regarding the Pink and Blue Fire gifts (are they on the Exalted Flamer or are they enabled for the chariot only when the rider is the Exalted Flamer) . My group has ruled it as the weapons being ON the chariot only when the rider is the EF, because that's the only way that thing is even close to being worth 100 points. Its also the only way the unit make sense (Fast, Open topped, AV10 but can't fire its weapons if it moves????). Still, you might want to cover this with your opponent before fielding them.
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




You are probably correct regarding the flamers however, deepstriking them as 6 would mean that they couldn't all fire their templates anyway, I shall do some experimenting as they tend to be most effective when they deepstrike. I preferred 3x3 as they would "seem" less threatening that a large squad of 9. This ensures to me in my mind that better/worse than average rolling isn't going to make me lose too much more than statically average and if they were to get focused down, they'd be focused regardless of 9 or 3's.
Daemon Princes and lords are expensive, I agree they are more durable, not withstanding, but needs be behind the aegis the heralds will be a line deep in horrors and go to ground for a 3+ cover save.

The Chariot is a Fast Open topped skimmer, and they can move combat speed (12") and the guys inside if you had gunports can fire their weapons at full range. A chariot is a fast open topped skimmer, the exalted flamer is the man inside or "on" I would suppose. Therefore he can still move his 12" and shoot the pink/blue flames.
This is the same as Dark Eldar for example in respect to travelling in and assaulting out of open topped vehicles and the like, the 12" move doesn't stop you from shooting.

The difference between the chariot and a regular fast skimmer, is that the chariot is also a chariot. This sounds obvious but makes a difference in combat. For example the chariot with an EF and a greater reward per say could charge a unit of lets say conscripts. The conscripts are Str3 with no krak grenades to speak of, therefore can not kill your EF because they have to destroy the chariot first leaving you to run amok so to speak. You can also deal impact hits on the charge and maintain an assault unlike other vehicles.

Regarding warpflame i'm not too scared of it. Most none meq armies have a lot of Toughness 3 and you can't get FNP against instant death (double your toughness) so Str 6 powers and Str 7+ weapons laugh at your misfortune.
Toughness 4-5 armies tend to be much more elite/small unit based where focus weight of fire removes them. 7D6 average shots rerolling statistically kills 4-5 space marines. whereas the return fire from that squad at full range is about 2 dead horrors. Although my attack can be denied on a 1/6 and tyranids can cause me a headache.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2013/12/30 04:01:56


 
   
Made in us
Esteemed Veteran Space Marine







Regarding the chariot, both Pink and Blue Fire are Heavy, which means it has to snapfire if the chariot moves if you consider the weapons to be on the Exalted Flamer. That means you can't fire the flame template weapon at all, and can only snapfire the D3 lascannon shots, AND you can only fire one of them even if stationary. Being Fast doesn't change the measurement for combat speed (its still 6"), just how many weapons can be fired by the vehicle itself (not the passengers), and so you would still be forced to follow the Fire Ports rules on page 78 of the BRB.

Based on that, 100 points for an AV10 Open Topped Chariot that can only fire if stationary, and has a relatively weak assault character is absurdly overpriced, which leads many to believe (myself included) that is NOT how the Burning Chariot is supposed to work. That, and the fact that it was not played that way in the WD that introduced it. Unfortunately, GW chose to not address the BC in the Daemon FAQ, and since we've not had a meaningful FAQ in the last 6 months, we are left with speculation and house rules to make it even remotely viable.
   
 
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