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Here's an Enclave list for an up and coming 500 point tournament with combat patrol restrictions. Optional HQ, no 2+ saves (of any kind including cover), no 3+ wounds, no AV34+, 2 vehicles max, no flyers etc. So I'm going all troops (as everything in my normal Tau listis not allowed, ditto for my Necrons, Chaos, Space Marines and Grey Knights)

3 Crisis: bonded, 2 Plasmas each, EWOs 168
3 Crisis: bonded, 2 Burstcannons each, 1 drone controller, 6 Gundrones, 1 VRT 214
2 Crisis: bonded, 2 Missile Pods each, EWOs 116

Could swap the EWOs on the plasma team (and the VRT) for ATS and another drone. But the list has insane firepower for 500 points.

12 plasma shots, 8 S7 shots and 36 S5 shots! I'm going for the table in most cases though everything is scoring. 60 Boys may cause me a problem but that's about it and with good play I should be able to wipe 20+ boys a turn which gives me a chance. What else do you think causes me a problem with the given restrictions?

I know someone's taking BA VGV hence the EWOs though maybe they are not the best support system with the given restrictions. But helps against outflankers and on a 4x4 I expect a decent amount of those.

What do you think? Anything you'd change?

I think Tactical squad spam might also be a concern. When they sit up in cover and pop shots at you, and you can't do enough wounds to take them down in return. Devestators might also be problematic since you're very easy to instant kill.

For example:
10 marines w/ missile
10 devs w/ 4 missiles

This is pretty simple and yet effective against most things with the given restrictions.

I would definitely consider trading out the burst suits for firewarriors personally. You have 20 wounds rather than 12 and have pretty much the same effectiveness(considering the range). Also, dropping the EWO on missile suits can also help with the cause, TLing it and then I think you have enough points for a fireblade.(If not take out another EWO or 2 on one of the plasma suits)

As for counter-deep strike/outflank. castle up in the middle and have a bubble wrap of firewarriors. Oh and, mathematically I would take TL plasmas too, the extra shots you get from 2 guns doesn't outweigh the points you are paying for. Since they are defending against deep strikers, having 6 shots TLed will be enough to murder most VGV and leave the rest for overwatch.

I will just make a new list here:

3 Crisis w/ bond, TL plasma, EWO 144 pt
10 Fire Warriors w/ bond
10 Fire warriors w/ bond 200 pt
2 Crisis w/ bond, TL missiles, 2 flamers 96 pt
Fireblade 60 pt

20 MEQs go down pretty quickly to this list. Not concerned by the 2 Tac squads and a Dev squad list (remember you have to have 2 troops).

As for your list you get significantly less plasma and MP hits and less S5 hits and are static and easier to catch in assault and with firepower.

For instance your plasma squad gets 4.5 hits mine get 6. That's 33% more hits for 16.7% more points. Same story for the MPs so I don't know what maths you're using. I could swap the EWOs on the MP suits to flamers as there probably won't be a huge amount of reserves with no flyers or drop pods. I don't want no EWO as I expect a marbo will turn up somewhere.

 FlingitNow wrote:
20 MEQs go down pretty quickly to this list. Not concerned by the 2 Tac squads and a Dev squad list (remember you have to have 2 troops).

As for your list you get significantly less plasma and MP hits and less S5 hits and are static and easier to catch in assault and with firepower.

For instance your plasma squad gets 4.5 hits mine get 6. That's 33% more hits for 16.7% more points. Same story for the MPs so I don't know what maths you're using. I could swap the EWOs on the MP suits to flamers as there probably won't be a huge amount of reserves with no flyers or drop pods. I don't want no EWO as I expect a marbo will turn up somewhere.

What I'm concerned with is the marines shooting back at you, in the worst case scenario he gets first turn and the deployment allows him to be within 24' bolter range. He can cause a few wounds with the missiles and a few with bolters if he's lucky, and then you'd be on the backfoot.

I do give up mobility for the firing lane style, but I do have 30 shots every turn at 30" and 50 at 15',,,I think that is a good trade since I still have the suits kind of supporting them.

The way I look at it is you're spending 30 pt for 1.5 hits with plasma, when that could be invested partly to a fireblade who gives fire warriors more shots. Now the reason I'd take fire warriors over burst suits is that there's just more bodies; afterall to a missile launcher a suit is just as squishy as a fire warrior, and I've learnt that the hard way.

Just what I would do, the original list seems cool enough.

The smaller the game is, the more important mobility is. Especially if there's even one piece of LOS blocking terrain, the all-suit build is superior.

It's a game of movement. I like list 1.

Cheers Shrike that was my point. As pretty much his entire discussion seems ignorant of the mobility of the Crisis suits.

The way I look at it is you're spending 30 pt for 1.5 hits with plasma, when that could be invested partly to a fireblade who gives fire warriors more shots.

So you wouldn't spend 30 points for 1.5 plasma hits a turn, spending 20 points per plasma hit. But you would spend 144 points for 4.5 plasma hits spending 32 points per plasma hit. You don't see that as a contrary stance to hold?

I know the Fireblade gives the FWs more shots but he also anchors them. So unless I'm against a Tyranid horde that comes at me the FWs just won't perform to the same level as the Crisis team who put 21 hits a turn on the enemy and are less points that your 15 hits a turn (25 at half range, which will happen once in a game). Whilst Krak missiles are indeed just as good at killing Crisis as they are FWs Frag can do a lot more to FWs as can TFCs and flamers of all types. Against boltguns all those FWs are about equally survivable as my suits and drone unit but the Crisis are much less likely to allow themselves to ever get shot at.

 FlingitNow wrote:
Cheers Shrike that was my point. As pretty much his entire discussion seems ignorant of the mobility of the Crisis suits.

The way I look at it is you're spending 30 pt for 1.5 hits with plasma, when that could be invested partly to a fireblade who gives fire warriors more shots.

So you wouldn't spend 30 points for 1.5 plasma hits a turn, spending 20 points per plasma hit. But you would spend 144 points for 4.5 plasma hits spending 32 points per plasma hit. You don't see that as a contrary stance to hold?

I know the Fireblade gives the FWs more shots but he also anchors them. So unless I'm against a Tyranid horde that comes at me the FWs just won't perform to the same level as the Crisis team who put 21 hits a turn on the enemy and are less points that your 15 hits a turn (25 at half range, which will happen once in a game). Whilst Krak missiles are indeed just as good at killing Crisis as they are FWs Frag can do a lot more to FWs as can TFCs and flamers of all types. Against boltguns all those FWs are about equally survivable as my suits and drone unit but the Crisis are much less likely to allow themselves to ever get shot at.

Hmm yea I see your point now.

Well went to the Tournament and tabled everyone I played. I came third having tabled the Tournament winner (without taking a single casualty) in the last game. That last sentence might sound weird but the Tournament Winner was the guy organising it so he won that game despite being tabled without causing a casualty... (I needed a draw to win the Tournament).