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With the increase in MCs and ap3+ weapons power armor isn't getting the job done. Once the only reason to pay 15 points for a space marine, it no longer lets said marine live long enough to use his tragically underpowered bolter. So do you think changing the old 3rd edition 3+ for a 4+ invulnerable would work better?

Not really. It reduces chances of survival in all cases, and as much as there are many cases where AP3 negates armor, there are many more where the 3+ is why many of my marines survive.

On my monstrous creatures definitely. Most of what is shooting at them is either wounding on 6s or piercing the armor save. Its why I love chaos daemon monstrous creature lists more than their nid counter parts.

On infantry, no. The arms race hasn't quite made me think a 3+ is bad yet. And most my battle sisters aren't dieing because of my save but because of my toughness.

My CSM will still die in droves from Taudar regardless.

My initial answer was yes as theres so much ap3 stuff around now anyway. But then i thought about taking that 3+ for granted, it does pass against most hordes and infantry especially in close combat. I guess if you knew who you would be up against, maybe

The save isn't the main problem with tactical marines, it's their lackluster firepower and mobility.

Pretty much, but an invuln of any kind would help. Tacs are mediocre at everything, which is why i only use vets, and even then.....

I don't see any justification for buffing Tacticals (or any power armour, for that matter) with better saves or invulnerables.

That said, sure I'd take it in a heartbeat. My 4+ saving rolls have always been better than my 3+ for some reason.

It still comes in really handy in close combat.

But you do tend to forget how awesome it is until you play marines again. Then suddenly you remember when they save your 24 hits against them and lose only 2 marines

I do think that the Xenos get a hard time. I think there should be more 4+ armour saves out there for the Xenos.

Might make my CSM's ap4 chainaxes worth taking finally.

I would trade the 3+ for a price decrease.

Main thing i use for both orks and tau to deal with marine troops is weight of fire. Neither firewarriors, gun drones, ork boyz, lootas, broadsides, or crisis burst teams have the AP to kill marines yet i do anyway because im throwing a ton of dice at them.

Grown to prefer it over high ap unless its a blast or a practically guaranteed shot. Causing 3-4 AP3 wounds may kill 3-4 marines (baring cover/invul) but its vastly easier to wiff those shots and only cause 1. I almost never wiff that badly with a high RoF team.

Also, a stock 4++ would be rather broken. Your entire army suddenly cannot be countered by big guns as everything has at least a 4++ for no cost increase. 3+ is not equal to a 4++ by a long shot.
Even if they went to 4+ armor and 5++ backup invul stock, that would be rather insane. Other races pay out the ass to give a troop unit invul saves, if they can do it at all.

I'd take it on my Crisis Suits in a second...

I play Marines, and I would NEVER make that trade. I can get a 4+ cover save from a million different things, and I can avoid/ride out close combats well enough. Against the majority of shooting and melee, that 3+ armor save is still one of the best parts about playing an MEQ army.

Abso-fething-lutely!!!
3+ saves are the reason I quit my Salamanders altogether and went to Daemons of Chaos once they got their first true codex in 5th! But that's mainly because I suck at passing armour saves in general...

On the other hand, my pass rate with even just the basic 5++ averages around 55% or higher per game!
Give me 3+ or worse yet, 2+ saves though? On a good day I'll run about a 15% pass rate.

Mind you, just because it's so damn fluffy, I love to tease my mate's DA's by always bringing my token squad of Fallen for him to hunt... usually lasts only 6-7 bolter wounds before the 6 guys are 'captured'.
You'd think I'd learn one of these days...