Fast and Furious gun turns up after Mexican resort shootout

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**Dreadclaw69**

http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/31/justice/mexican-shootout-fast-and-furious/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

Washington (CNN) -- A dramatic shootout between authorities and suspected cartel gunmen at a Mexican seaside resort this month has ties to a botched U.S. gun operation.

A U.S. official said Tuesday that investigators have traced at least one firearm recovered at a December 18 gunfight in Puerto Peñasco, across from the Arizona border, to Operation Fast and Furious.

That's the disastrous operation run by agents in the Phoenix office of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

Agents allowed suspected gun smugglers to buy about 2,000 firearms with the goal of trying to find and prosecute high-level traffickers. They couldn't track the firearms and most are believed to have ended up with cartels and gangsters in Mexico.

Many have turned up at crime scenes in Mexico and the United States, including at a shooting that killed a U.S. border agent in 2010.

The shootout in Puerto Peñasco, also called Rocky Point by Arizona tourists, two weeks ago left at least five suspected cartel gunmen dead, including possibly a high level Sinaloa cartel chief, according to Mexican authorities.

Witnesses reported hours of shooting and grenade explosions, with Mexican authorities using helicopters to attack fleeing suspected cartel gunmen on the ground.

Guns recovered at such scenes are routinely checked with the ATF's tracing lab to try to determine their origin. At least one AK-47 style firearm was found, and U.S. investigators identified it as one that was allowed to be sold to suspected traffickers as part of Fast and Furious, according to the U.S. official.

The ATF, in a statement, said: "ATF has accepted responsibility for the mistakes made in the Fast and Furious investigation and at the attorney general's direction we have taken appropriate and decisive action to ensure that these errors will not be repeated. And we acknowledge that, regrettably, firearms related to the Fast and Furious investigation will likely continue to be recovered at future crime scenes."

Guns from Fast and Furious have turned up at other high-profile killings in Mexico, including those of the brother of a Mexican state prosecutor and of a beauty queen.

The Fast and Furious operation gave rise to more than a year of political controversy for the Justice Department.

Rep. Darrell Issa, R-California, and Sen. Charles Grassley, R-Iowa, led a congressional probe to determine how it came to be approved.

Eventually, House Republicans sanctioned Attorney General Eric Holder for contempt of Congress in a legal dispute over the White House's refusal to turn over documents.

Holder has said tactics used in Fast and Furious never should have been allowed. A Justice Department inspector general report cleared Holder of wrongdoing and placed most blame on officials at the ATF and the Phoenix U.S. attorney's office for failing to properly oversee the agents running the operation.

Grassley, in a statement Tuesday, said: "In Operation Fast and Furious, the Mexican drug cartels found an easy way to supplement their own illegal ways. Worse yet, the Obama administration has yet to publicly hold anyone accountable for this disastrous policy. Unfortunately, guns from Fast and Furious will be found in operations like this for years to come."

**d-usa**

How many (or more like how few) of the 2,000 firearms have they tracked down yet?

They should run out eventually.....

**Breotan**

No idea since it doesn't appear that they didn't set up any method of tracking the guns other than logging serial numbers.

**AlexHolker**

The ATF, in a statement, said: "ATF has accepted responsibility for the mistakes made in the Fast and Furious investigation and at the attorney general's direction we have taken appropriate and decisive action to ensure that these errors will not be repeated. And we acknowledge that, regrettably, firearms related to the Fast and Furious investigation will likely continue to be recovered at future crime scenes."

Oh good, the ATF has accepted responsibility. I take it, then, that the people responsible are in prison for deliberately subverting the law to supply guns to criminals. No?

**Seaward**

No.

**Captain Fantastic**

Is there any clear idea what we were giving to them, like what kinds of specific firearms?

The ATF confiscates hundreds, if not thousands, of illegal weapons and weapons seized from crime scenes, among other sources. Not to mention all the souveniers we bring back from Iraq, Afghanistan, and beyond. It would be interesting to see what they ended up with.

**Seaward**

Captain Fantastic wrote:
Is there any clear idea what we were giving to them, like what kinds of specific firearms?

They weren't technically giving them anything, they were telling gun store owners to continue to sell to known straw purchasers, often after the gun store owners themselves had brought the straw purchaser to the ATF's attention.

I think it was something like 2,000 guns they let walk, and I think they've recovered around, oh, 5 or so. We've got a ways to go.

**djones520**

Captain Fantastic wrote:
Is there any clear idea what we were giving to them, like what kinds of specific firearms?

The ATF confiscates hundreds, if not thousands, of illegal weapons and weapons seized from crime scenes, among other sources. Not to mention all the souveniers we bring back from Iraq, Afghanistan, and beyond. It would be interesting to see what they ended up with.

According to a congressional report there were AK-47's, Barrett .50 cal sniper rifles, .38 revolvers, and FN-5.7 handguns.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=7&ved=0CEUQFjAG&url=http%3A%2F%2Foversight.house.gov%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F02%2Ffinal_final.pdf&ei=3GrEUtuyDMqokQen5YDIDg&usg=AFQjCNGiSU12BxCjCtuHvSBxCNIFFMkltQ

**Captain Fantastic**

djones520 wrote:
Captain Fantastic wrote:
Is there any clear idea what we were giving to them, like what kinds of specific firearms?

The ATF confiscates hundreds, if not thousands, of illegal weapons and weapons seized from crime scenes, among other sources. Not to mention all the souveniers we bring back from Iraq, Afghanistan, and beyond. It would be interesting to see what they ended up with.

According to a congressional report there were AK-47's, Barrett .50 cal sniper rifles, .38 revolvers, and FN-5.7 handguns.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=7&ved=0CEUQFjAG&url=http%3A%2F%2Foversight.house.gov%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F02%2Ffinal_final.pdf&ei=3GrEUtuyDMqokQen5YDIDg&usg=AFQjCNGiSU12BxCjCtuHvSBxCNIFFMkltQ

I don't know why I still don't have a total grasp on this situation. I guess a lot has happened since this broke. 2000 is quite a number, the more I think about it. I doubt any sizable number of them will turn up. I'd be surprised if a good chunk of them haven't had the dremel taken to them already.

Five-Sevens? That's a surprise there. I've never met anyone who wasn't swimming in dough who could afford to feed a five-seven.

**LordofHats**

And as per usual I ask; Why do we keep the ATF around?

FYI; for those unaware, the whistleblower in this scandal got fired two years ago for obviously bogus reasons.

**djones520**

LordofHats wrote:
And as per usual I ask; Why do we keep the ATF around?

Because beurocracts.

**Ouze**

LordofHats wrote:
And as per usual I ask; Why do we keep the ATF around?

Because the NRA wants the ATF around. In fact, at one point, the NRA lobbied to prevent the ATF from being merged with the much-more-competent Secret Service when it looked like that might happen.

It's a common fallacy that the ATF is poorly run and no one knows why, when the truth is that the ATF is poorly run and it's 100% intentional and by design.

**AlexHolker**

djones520 wrote:
According to a congressional report there were AK-47's, Barrett .50 cal sniper rifles, .38 revolvers, and FN-5.7 handguns.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=7&ved=0CEUQFjAG&url=http%3A%2F%2Foversight.house.gov%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F02%2Ffinal_final.pdf&ei=3GrEUtuyDMqokQen5YDIDg&usg=AFQjCNGiSU12BxCjCtuHvSBxCNIFFMkltQ

Oh what the feth. The next time the Democrats make noise about an assault weapons ban, they can choke on this and die.

**Dreadclaw69**

djones520 wrote:
According to a congressional report there were AK-47's, Barrett .50 cal sniper rifles, .38 revolvers, and FN-5.7 handguns.

So small potatoes then.......

Captain Fantastic wrote:
Five-Sevens? That's a surprise there. I've never met anyone who wasn't swimming in dough who could afford to feed a five-seven.

With the Cartels swimming in money, it makes a good compact choice for anyone worried about coming up against someone wearing body armour (like the authorities, or occasional rival)

LordofHats wrote:
FYI; for those unaware, the whistleblower in this scandal got fired two years ago for obviously bogus reasons.

At least he didn't have to flee to China, then get asylum in Russia

**Co'tor Shas**

AlexHolker wrote:
djones520 wrote:
According to a congressional report there were AK-47's, Barrett .50 cal sniper rifles, .38 revolvers, and FN-5.7 handguns.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=7&ved=0CEUQFjAG&url=http%3A%2F%2Foversight.house.gov%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F02%2Ffinal_final.pdf&ei=3GrEUtuyDMqokQen5YDIDg&usg=AFQjCNGiSU12BxCjCtuHvSBxCNIFFMkltQ

Oh what the feth. The next time the Democrats make noise about an assault weapons ban, they can choke on this and die.

So FAF is the fault of all democrats now, is it?

**whembly**

Co'tor Shas wrote:
AlexHolker wrote:
djones520 wrote:
According to a congressional report there were AK-47's, Barrett .50 cal sniper rifles, .38 revolvers, and FN-5.7 handguns.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=7&ved=0CEUQFjAG&url=http%3A%2F%2Foversight.house.gov%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F02%2Ffinal_final.pdf&ei=3GrEUtuyDMqokQen5YDIDg&usg=AFQjCNGiSU12BxCjCtuHvSBxCNIFFMkltQ

Oh what the feth. The next time the Democrats make noise about an assault weapons ban, they can choke on this and die.

So FAF is the fault of all democrats now, is it?

No... just Holdner & Obama.

There's waaaaaaaaay more democrats than those two...