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You have some quite nice punch in there for 150pts, with the sniper rifle and HMG. Crusader will give you a nice 'ace' card to play, and the 7 orders you have from the start (assuming the Crusader is starting off-table) should just about be OK.

Fusilier with a medkit probably won't be that successful, not the best odds of success and it this stage you are probably just better off going with miniatures/units you like just to get a feel for the game.

Oh, and welcome to the fold! It's a cracking game, you won't regret it

Doctor or paramedic is not necessary. They are specialists that can cap objectives in certain missions, but at the moment I wouldn't worry about it.

Personally would go with different miniatures. Fusiliers are dated. They are useful for hiding your lieutenant but I wouldn't purchase them during this time.

The following army is more geared towards objectives. Doctor and engineer are your specialists. Regular with spitfire is a dirt cheap solider. I always include a minelayer, he can cover a path that might be used by your opponent. Rao is there because he's good lieutenant and a nice miniature. I'd advice going for Crock Man with BS over Crusader Brethren. Brethren is good but orders are always nice to have.

Panoceania | 7 models
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Rao Lt (24|0)
Acontecimento Spitfire (17|1)
Acontecimento MineLayer (14|0.5)
Croc Man BShotgun (29|0)
Nisse HMG (36|1.5)
Trauma-Doc Doctor (14|0)
Machinist Engineer (15|0)
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149/150 points | 3/3 swc
open with Aleph Toolbox : direct link

 Knight wrote:
Doctor or paramedic is not necessary. They are specialists that can cap objectives in certain missions, but at the moment I wouldn't worry about it.

If I can spare the points, I always drop a doctor or paramedic in. The chance to being a unit back is always better than no chance at all. But, that's just down to personal preference - like much of Infinity.

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Phenatix wrote:
Hmm, perhaps I should read more about the missions and their specifics? I was under the impression that anything could capture objectives, but this appears to not be the case?

Capturing an objective requires you to be a specialist. IIRC, this is covered by Paramedics, Doctors, Hackers, Engineers and Forward Observers, but I might be missing some. Some objectives can be destroyed, but IIRC new rules have changed it so you can only do it with certain Multi ammo types.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Phenatix wrote:
What exactly is wrong with the Crusader Brethren? I was reading their entry and the rules for their equipment/skills, and they seem like a steal...

Nothing wrong with them. However, Knight made a point - orders are nice to have. You don't get the Bretherens order until he turns up if you are AD'ing him. If you can deal with that, go with the Bretheren.

Specialists for objectives are for the ITS scenarios here http://www.infinitythegame.com/infinity/downloads/its/%5Ben%5DITSScenarios.pdf and the new ones here http://infinitythegame.com/infinity/downloads/its/%5Ben%5DITS%20Preview.zip. There are also the YAMS mission system stuff here http://wargamingtrader.com/yams.

Doctors can actually save a mini

Paramedics will actively kill your mini majority of the time

Nisses are really good, but I wouldn't use them as the "strong arm" in a 150pt. I suggest picking a heavy trooper instead since they get 2 health, and just proxying one of your Nisses as that unit.

Official Army builder - http://infinitythegame.com/army/

 Talamare wrote:
Doctors can actually save a mini

Paramedics will actively kill your mini majority of the time

To be fair, my WIP 14 Ghulam Doctor has been an angel of death to my own models recently. In my last 3 games it's killed every single model it's tried to help, which has been about 3 per game.

But I still take it because, again, the chance to bring back say, a Muyib with Spitfire is better than not having the chance at all.

 -Loki- wrote:

 Talamare wrote:
Doctors can actually save a mini

Paramedics will actively kill your mini majority of the time

To be fair, my WIP 14 Ghulam Doctor has been an angel of death to my own models recently. In my last 3 games it's killed every single model it's tried to help, which has been about 3 per game.

But I still take it because, again, the chance to bring back say, a Muyib with Spitfire is better than not having the chance at all.

The dice gods can be cruel, but I rather take the Doctors 70% chance of success. Than the medics 40~50%

Kamau are excellent investment, if you can spare the points. I wouldn't pick Kamau with just the rifle but the heavy weapon options they have are great. Superior BS value, X-visor/LGL and HMG are tempting options. X-visor with MSR doesn't have that much value unless you're playing on 6' x 4' board.

PanO doesn't have good medics, so it's better to play smart rather than relay on a medic to save your unit. She can be useful and you will be grateful that you've included her, if a life was saved. Otherwise a feeling of slight irritation will follow.

Red Harvest - those are some really cool markers in your signature (love the 'Charlie's Angels' one in particular! ), can I ask where you got them from?

@Phenatix - The Crusader Brethren will 'lose' you an order early on while they are off the table, but you can use them in normal set-up if you want, and the AD (airborne deployment) can be tremendously effective, and fun, for new players. A lot of people coming into this game often don't realise the importance of facing miniatures, and an AD drop-trooper coming in to shoot them in the back is a good way to learn that If you like the miniature, I would go for it.

In the same way that Paramedics are actually a pretty amusing thing to use actually, if nothing else them 'killing'* the wounded trooper will usually get a good laugh from around the table


* Of course, the medic-roll failure doesn't really mean that the doctor has made a botched job. Just that they have arrived, checked the status of the wounded and found that it is impossible to save them (or they just don't have the necessary expertise/equipment to get them back on their feet).

With PanO, though, the TraumaDoc being the same price as a Fusilier with Medkit... I'd go for the TraumaDoc.

And I think the Croc is ace, because TO Camo always makes people a bit jittery, especially in low points games. All in all, I like Knight's list. I might skip the Machinist at first, especially if not playing missions.

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It's a bit too much of an investment. You can use lower airborne level (AD 2) to safely put your Crusader on table.

Yeah, I would wait for a campaign mission before you go an invest points in that Mulebot.

It is insane though how much better the Kamau hacker is compared to a 6pts cheaper Fusilier hacker, eh?

If I were you... and I'm partial to my own lists, I would invest in Auxilia. Sure, the baseline stats are a bit lower, but that Auxbot is fun to have, especially at lower level games I would think.

I dunno. It's 3 pts more expensive than a FUS/REG cheerleader, and that baggage rule can help. Having the EVO repeater around is certainly a boon if you plan on playing a hacker actively.
The bigger issue for many starting players is a €30 ish box set that contains 21pts in models which are decidedly support-only; it's often overlooked in favour of 'flashier' bots.
Personally, I'd say replacing some cheerleader with an EVO MUL is often a good idea if that EVO rep could potentially do some good.

You'd be surprised how many orders some folk spend chasing a well-hidden EVO repeater. (Really, you POS _one_ single Marut and suddenly...)

bringing a Kamau and a repeater bot to get a lone crusader brethren down onto the table safely is where the insanity really is, here

Remember, you don't have to inform your opponent which, if any, AD model you're playing. Just make sure to bring TO to one game and AD to another and often they just don't even bother trying to hack AD

Getting a box of AUX is always a very, very good idea. Those things are insanely good for their points. However, FUS/REG have the advantage of being linkable in NCA and ASA respectively; that can be a consideration (quite aside from the "hey, I figured since I'm starting, I'd buy the starter" issue of model availability...) and they are a few pts cheaper. AUX hide LTs just as well so that's not the issue.
I wouldn't advise the AUX as the next first purchase though, those fusiliers will do fine for a while (IMO), even though I, too, vastly prefer auxilia when given the choice.
the fus hacker has its place: NCA. either in a link, or simply because NCA don't get a kamau.

Oh true that, I forgot the NCA link (we never play link teams).

I just figure I'd go whole hog and get the Hexa hacker, instead.

I get all your points for the EVO Mule, and I agree, but I figured at 150pts, it wasn't quite worth it. I just took the mulebots from the Dreamforge accessory pack. Lighter, poseable, and they look like they can actually carry baggage... and they were cheaper too.

Hmm. No BTS, nice for objectives but less of an infowar-focus. Kamau+EVO actually makes for rather scary PanO hacking (and it's the bot approaching the enemy, the Kamau is hidden away safely anyway!), all in all.
Not to say the Hexas aren't useful in their own way, but I wouldn't say the two are made for remotely similar roles
(and it's not just the link for NCA, they don't get Kamau period - it's either a fusilier or some aleph horror, if you don't want to pay 82|0.5 for an swiss guard hacker)

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That is a hell of a lot of eggs in one basket. I don't think a multi-rifle would be that much better; ideally, you'd want more weapons with more than 16" of (good) range. Still, it's only 150pts; you might get away with it, especially since the other guy will only have one or two HMG's/snipers as well and you could stand a decent chance of taking those out with the crusader. It's a risky list to play, though.

Honestly, I'd just get a sniper fusilier and something nice with an HMG which just deploys at the start of battle, along with perhaps some AD trooper with a BS or somesuch. Much nicer to start playing with, especially for a beginner.
This is *not* a list you want to be playing a bunch of times, especially when starting, IMO.

The Acon Regular with Spitfire could be a nice replacement for the Crusader Brethren, and then upgrade one of the fusiliers with the extra points/swc?

The reduced range on a spitfire as opposed to a sniper/hmg makes it less than ideal reactively compared to either of those.

With the option of an hmg fus available, I'd go with that.

Unless your faction is Nomads, I would not recommend Hackers at 150pt

Listen man, you are PanO!

Your men have been given the bestest, most killiest war gear around!

Your line man Fusilier is BS12 for 10 points, that is INSANE

You do NOT need to use trickery and underhanded tactics to win, because you simply WIN at fire fights!

Get a 40-60pt Heavy Infantry to do all the Murdering
Get a 20-30pt Medium Infantry incase he fails
and fill up the rest of your points with those beautiful BS12 Fusiliers

I'm afraid ITS put some serious limitations on how much you want to invest into heavier arms. More often I just want to snipe enemy specialists and achieve objectives on my own. It's not a good position to put your opponent into too early retreat.

imo ITS and Infinity are 2 completely different games, with 2 completely different mindsets

and before you even think of dipping your toes into ITS you should know Infinity in and out

I personally feel jumping into ITS before you get core mechanics down, will just lead you into being a player with sloppy core gameplay.

I wouldn't know about the habits the player might show. I'll agree that armies are more balanced around engagements rather than running and denying objectives.

 Talamare wrote:
imo ITS and Infinity are 2 completely different games, with 2 completely different mindsets

and before you even think of dipping your toes into ITS you should know Infinity in and out

I personally feel jumping into ITS before you get core mechanics down, will just lead you into being a player with sloppy core gameplay.

This is a very interesting statement and, to steal a phrase, I do want to know more!

Can you elaborate?

I haven't played ITS (thanks Sagan, I'm not ready yet) but just trying to accomplish Paradiso missions makes me feel tight on either specialists OR killy units OR cheerleaders.

 Alpharius wrote:

 Talamare wrote:
imo ITS and Infinity are 2 completely different games, with 2 completely different mindsets

and before you even think of dipping your toes into ITS you should know Infinity in and out

I personally feel jumping into ITS before you get core mechanics down, will just lead you into being a player with sloppy core gameplay.

This is a very interesting statement and, to steal a phrase, I do want to know more!

Can you elaborate?

You can find ITS rules on their website, but basically when you play an ITS game. Your core focus becomes getting objective points, it doesn't matter if you "lose" the battle as long as you scored more points.
Because of this it is decently common for players to play awkwardly in terms of direct gameplay, but makes sense in terms of scoring objectives.

For example, In a normal Infinity game, a strong, high point target with a big weapon is often a priority since he is dangerous on the opponents turn; however during an ITS game a much weaker specialist will often be targeted with priority with the intent to deny them from scoring objectives.
How you build your list changes drastically as well, previously units you would never bring are sudden a decent choice since they are specialist troops or have specialty ammo.
How you spend your orders are different as well, while in a normal annihilation game you would likely attempt to find the angles and assault patterns that would leave most kills while having the least deaths. In ITS the goal is instead to clear enemies that would provoke dangerous ARO while spending the majority of your orders to complete objectives.
One final point I will make, In normal games setting an opponent in retreat is often a Godsend, marking that you have basically won the game. In ITS setting the opponent in an early retreat might mean you do not get to complete objectives while he uses his final turn to sneak the lead in objectives and thus win the game that he was "losing".

These are certain nuances to the game, that I feel is more important to learn after your have established a good "mental math" about which way you should handle each situation. Situations such as ODD behind a wall with a strong weapon or Basic Anti TAG combat.