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Alright so here is my optimal list. I only played with it once against necrons and it was even until turn 4 where I clearly had the victory. It was interesting and I am glad for the choices I picked but I do not know what I may have missed in building it.

Raven Guard Space Marines 1848 points

HQ: Chapter Master- artificer armor, storm shield, melta bombs, bike, and teeth of terra. 225

Troops: Tactical Squad (10) Melta bombs, plasma gun, heavy Bolter. W/ a rhino. 205 (run as full squad)

Tactical Squad (10) plasma gun and a multi melta. W/ rhino. 200 (combat squads)

Scouts (5) camo cloaks and sniper rifles. 70

Scouts (5) camo cloaks and sniper rifles. 70

Elite: Sternguard Veterans (10) 3 combi meltas. W/ a drop pod. 295 (combat squad)

Fast Attack: Assault Squad (7) Vet Sgt w/ power axe & melta bombs, flamer. 154

Assault Squad (7) Vet Sgt w/ power fist, flamer. 159

Stormtalon- skyhammer missile launcher & assault cannon. 125

Heavy: Predator- autocannon & las cannon side sponsons. 115

Devastator Squad (5) 3 Las cannons. 130

Thunderfire cannon- 100


I know its not fluffy but a straight fluffy raven guard would have no chance.

The tactical squads scout 12"in rhino
My HQ starts in a squad of the 7 assault marines to help soak up shots in first turn, then breaks off, so this list is best for going second cause when the drop pod comes in and the stern combat squad and wreck havoc you also have two assault squads coming at you and a chapter master.

I am curious as to how this would be optimized for competitive play, I already know I would take out 2 assault marines to upgrade my HQ to have shield eternal, I am not worried about id in casual games with t5. Let me know please thank you!

Its not your toughness thats as much of an issue for ID, the sheer number of librarians in the game is the pertinent issue, and T4 or T5 make no difference when monstrous creatures smash you. By the look of it your paying 225 for a warlord who has no place in this list. For the same points you could get two level 2 libraraians with force axes and jump packs. Your anti-air is also quite poor at this size, your babybird only pens hellturkeys on sixes! I'm not a fan of the teeth of terra, if your dead set on a chapter master I'd go with a thunder hammer and the shield eternal, that way you dont have to waste points on melta bombs either

Very interesting, thanks for this I am a fan of librarians and psychic powers (I play eldar too) yeah my anti air is poor, out of 7 games so far against another flyer mine has not been able to take it down in one turn, its because of the jink saves though, I would glance them to death if they rolled bad lol . Is anti flyer that important though? Most games I have played against flyers, I do fine just ignoring them completely.

Everything else was fine though? I was expecting someone to say something about the predator and 1 of the 2 scout squads. I am going to look into the dual librarian things. Sounds cool as heck.

I'm quite fond of scout squads personally but really don't like predators, or vehicles in general in this edition. your warlord at present is just a bigger issue

Do you think its really worth taking dual non tanking librarians? I know the bike guy doesn't fit but he is a beast of a tank and makes people have too choose from taking 20 shots at him or 1 of the 2 assault squads or 1 of the 2 tactical squads or the combat squaded stern guard behind them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
What psychic tables also?

Dat Guy wrote:
Do you think its really worth taking dual non tanking librarians? I know the bike guy doesn't fit but he is a beast of a tank and makes people have too choose from taking 20 shots at him or 1 of the 2 assault squads or 1 of the 2 tactical squads or the combat squaded stern guard behind them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
What psychic tables also?

Take the Chapter Master. Instead of the Storm Shield use the Shield Eternal. Problem Solved

Yeah I know that for the competitive part, I am just curious to the other guys talk about the dual librarians it sounds cool just wondering about there effectiveness in this way.

Dual librarian is OK. I'd rather have Tiggy

 Feasible wrote:
Dual librarian is OK. I'd rather have Tiggy

Yeah I agree, that'show I used to do it. Tigurius with a 4 Las cannon devastator squad and rolled for perfect timing and fore warning in a 3+ cover save in ruins from techmarine from thunder fire cannon. Obviously with prescience you have 4 Las cannons that ignore cover, you can even ally them as imperial fists.

But on that 8th game where I rolled with re rolls and did not get perfect timing I realized its still based off psychic power rolls and even thoughthe percentage chance is really good, I don't want to rely on that as my big power house. It is OP though, my first 3 games I got prescience, forwarning and perfect timing.

I was going over the dual jump pack librarian thing and with biomancy they can be a beast of a unit with any of those powers, but my concern is that both of those units will be focused fired to death especially since the librarians have no invulnerable save and 2 wounds.