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Fateweaver
Daemon prince - Slaanesh,Warp-forged armor,flight,ML3,Greater/Exalted reward (Lash and Grimoire)
10 Plaguebearers
10 Plaguebearers
10 Plaguebearers

Be’Lakor
10 Cultists
Heldrake - Baleflamer

Grimoire Fateweaver, DP gets invisibility, Endurance Be'Lakor

Thoughts?

You HOPE to get invisibility and endurance the only one of the three you can guarantee is the grimoire and even that can bite you in the ass if you roll poorly. I just think at this size 44 models isnt enough, Ive found fateweaver works best with screamers and heralds on discs in the list, with the list as is your not getting anywhere near putting troops on your opponents objectives. Plaguebearers are perfect troops for sitting on home objectives but have very few ways to take opponents ones and a sneeze could knock down 10 cultists. All in all mate I just dont think its a very solid build, could be fun to play with/against and if your intention is too only play for fun then go for it

No, Belakor AUTOMATICALLY gets all telepathy. All of them. Endurance is not a definitive pull, but with shrouding, and his tiny size, he is very survivable without it.
Invisibility guaranteed. Every time. And puppet master. Every time. He can also gets d3 additional warp charges every time one of your units fails a morale test. And is eternal warrior. And has flesh and armor bane. And has shrouding...

This list scores on its own objectives and kills your scoring units / contests your objectives. I deep strike 2 of the plague bearers and depending on the board, I can get one forward objective there. Of course screamerstar is better, but why run another cookie cutter list?

In playtesting it is scary good. My question is how can I get a portaglyph in there without changing how it works? I would like more troops, as the 2 games I lost were both close games against screamerstar and taudar with a tanking baron. More troops could have won either.

The Be'Lakor model is sooooo small - substantially smaller than a normal daemon prince - think terminator with wings... ...

The problem with deep striking plaguebearers is with slow and purposeful they can't run so for a turn they rmain in a blast sized circle! You said your dp gets invisibility not be'lakor but you can cast it on your dp if he's in range i suppose. If your trying to cut points do you really need your dp to be a level 3 if belakor gets all of telepathy and your still rocking fateweaver?

Very low model count. Plague Bearers are squishy. Horrors can be a bit more survivable (and shooty).

You'll have serious scoring issues almost every game.

The Slaneesh DP is going to be squishy. Even with Invis, there's a lot of things that ignore cover, and grounding the guy isn't going to be that much of a chore for most armies. He's T5 with 4 3+ wounds (2+ if you dive).

Once he's down, your book is gone and your whole house of cards collapses like a set of domino's. Check Mate.

I ve found that the most suitable carrier for Grimoire is a DP of tzeentch due to reroll 1s. Apart from that, the FC list is always low on models. Its a swiss knife army that needs perfect playing and one wrong move can be definately devastating for you.

I think he's got Slaneesh for Lash as his anti-flier.

Yea, it plays better than you might think. Puppet master is pretty good at eliminating the units that are a real threat to the flying princes. I understand how to play the list, I just don't know how to squeeze a portaglyph in there.

I use 3 ML on the slaneesh prince to get biomancy. It isn't a must-have, but if I get it I can play Be'Lakor much more aggressively.

If my opponent has large blasts that I can't get to, I will walk the plague bearers on instead of deep striking, and work on clearing my opponents scoring units and contesting his objectives.

How are horrors more survivable? T3 is more survivable than T4 shrouded? hmmmm

I don't see the greater survivability of horrors over plaguebearers, am i missing something?

Horror's? In a world of S6-7 ignores cover shooting, horrors save ~40% of the time compared to ~33% of the time with the same number of wounds. Think a Heldrake, Wave Serpent, or Tau shooting.

Edit: Also, Horrors can run or shoot 2D6 S5 shots. Plaguebearers just sorta die.

Plaguebearers in cover are VERY survivable. I don't need to shoot - I need to survive and score. If the horrors are close enough to shoot, they are close enough to be shot. THey then promptly die. Or those 7 s5 shots kill a marine and give the squad feel no pain. Great move!!! Without a herald, they are crap.

If you are actually shooting enough long ranged firepower to remove my plaguebearers , what are you doing with the heldrake and princes?

plague bearers are slow, mostly useless units. They dont make your opponent fear them in any way. Daemonettes and horrors are a much better option.

Some people posting in here have no clue what they are talking about. im looking at ceann fine here. ML3 is incredibly necessary and your troop count is above average for this type of list. Most 2k lists only have 2-3 troops choices and the slaanesh prince is imo a better option in this situation than a tzeentch one.

Instead of having 3 10 man plague squads I would go with 2 15 man daemonette/horror squads.

Horrors without a heralds aren't so great imo - I have had horrible luck with killing very few models and giving the unit I shot fnp, but daemonettes are indeed very scar if they are close to you.

I am glad that someone understands how this list works.

What type of stupid 2k lists would have two to three troop choices? You come out with a stupid statement like that and have the temerity to say I don't have a clue? Hahaha

You are clearly not a competitive player, or you are very new to the scene. What army do you play?
These builds do not need many scoring units. They kill all of yours.

All I need is one objective at the end to win when you have none. Most people squeeze a glyph in as well - troop generator.

This list just seems to lack offense. All of your offense will be coming from Bel'akor and the Heldrake. You certainly won't be charging Fateweaver into anything, and you'll have to keep the DP out of harms way to keep the Grimoire active.

If I was facing this list, I'd focus on Bel'akor and the Heldrake. Once those are down, I can take my time and pick off whatever unit is most threatening.

It's a good list, but it has some problems with other meta builds. These are the big ones:

Waveserpent Spam
Heavy Skyfire Tau with various ignore cover shenanigans
FW Heavy IG
Night scythes
Tyranids with shadows
Venom spam could do a # on it as well, because of volume of shots and mobility

It depends on your meta. Around here we have a lot of Eldar, Tau, and Tyranid players and I wouldn't run it. I prefer screamer star or daemoneette bombs.

NOTE: NEVER take 2 troop choices in this list. If you do, it will cost you many games. You want a minimum of 3 at 1500. Over 1500 3+ portalglyph.

Only hard counter listed above is Tau, but every list has a bad match up. It revolves a lot about maneuvering, to beat some of the harder match ups, but not impossible. As far as other posts on this topic go, it seems like there are very few people that know what they are talking about. The list looks fine to me, and very survivable with grimoire on Fateweaver, invisibility on bel'akor, and if you get iron arm and endurance on the lash prince. I also like the hell drake especially since you have to ally to fit in bel'akor anyways. I would say if you don't manage to get iron arm then invisibility on the DP for a greater chance of survival.

 Inigo Montoya wrote:
You are clearly not a competitive player, or you are very new to the scene. What army do you play?
These builds do not need many scoring units. They kill all of yours.

All I need is one objective at the end to win when you have none. Most people squeeze a glyph in as well - troop generator.

I am a competitive player actually but then this is the internet so since I disagree with you I must be inadequate in some respect according to your esteemed self

My 1850 Daemon list has 25 models. And I can win objective games no problem. I'd say the list is nice. Definitely would look into daemonettes instead of plague bearers. movement is your best form of survivability in the current meta which the plaguebearers lack.

I quite like the list, myself. I've had great success running similar builds.

Ceann Fine wrote:

 Inigo Montoya wrote:
You are clearly not a competitive player, or you are very new to the scene. What army do you play?
These builds do not need many scoring units. They kill all of yours.

All I need is one objective at the end to win when you have none. Most people squeeze a glyph in as well - troop generator.

I am a competitive player actually but then this is the internet so since I disagree with you I must be inadequate in some respect according to your esteemed self

If you are competitive, how have you not seen builds similar to this table people? It is not a great list when run my a mediocre player, but when it is piloted by someone who understands how to use it, it is very good.
One of your earlier posts focused on the low troop count and you call someone a name for pointing out that these types of lists function well with 3 troop choices.

I haven't played you nor have I seen you play, but your lack of understanding of a standard high-level tournament build does make me question your experience in the tournament scene. I am not trying to be obtuse or insult you here, but you claim to be a tournament player on one hand, and don't understand how a common tournament build actually works on the other!

I lost to serpent spam with it tonight. Very close game, 1 objective each, both of us got linebreaker and slay the worlord, he got first blood. I wish I could keep all of the troops off of the board turn 1...
2 x 15 daemonettes was far better than 3 x 10 plaguebearers. This same player rushed dire avengers at my plaguebearers the first time we played. He was afraid to get anywhere near the daemonettes. This allowed me to build a pseudo-funnel and take his army apart a piece at a time. It was a good, close game. Be'Lakor is so small, he didn't get line of sight on him until turn 3.

I didn't say your list was bad.

I said two things.

1) Pink Horrors can do more for you tactically than Plague Bearers. You don't have to shoot, but you can run. Against ignores cover weapons, they are more survivable. In cover, while gone-to-ground (as daemons can do), they are slightly less survivable than Plaguebearers. It's not a huge hole in your list or anything. If I (as a fairly competitive player) was playing against your list, I'd focus on your scoring, because you have no Portalglyph (which you already understood as a small issue above).

2) You do need to have the book on a DP, and a Slaanesh DP fits in your list quite well (as anti-flier). His issue, he's squishy. He'll always be squishy.

===

As someone said above, Taudar will crush you. I think there's a couple of competitive Necron builds that'd crush you too. (Cronair, AV13 Spam).

I think Eldar in general give you issues too, not even strictly Serpent Spam.

====

If you're goal is high-level tournament play, you lose to Taudar, Jetseer, and Screamerstar before you deploy, so you might want to take a look at those weaknesses.

Yes, but all of the TOs are nerfing screamerstar for the majors, it appears.

Jetseer is not as scary to me as I can move faster than them and get around the tanking baron (who is getting nerfed by TOs as well...)
Puppetmaster is crippling to jetseer builds!

I do play high level, Top5 Indy GT player... ...I had been playing 'cron air, then Tau, but rather than play taudar I decided on daemons for a while. I feel the nerf bat that is getting ready to swing will make this a solid high level performer. We shall see.

The sorta nice thing about a lvl 1 Tzeentch DP, is that you can take Flickering Fire on the rear arc of a Flier, have this guy hold a portalglyph or book, and then have a Herald of Nurgle hold a book or portal glyph in a unit of Bearers....???

(Tzeentch DP would fill a HS slot instead of HQ)...

I dunno, tough to shoe in a Portalglyph.

Let us know how it works out.

I think if you are going to rely on flickering fire you need to mass it, which is hard to do at 1500pts and while taking be'lakor. The mass amount of shots can get ridiculous when you have 4-5 MC's casting 4d6 shots at you with 2-3 squads of horrors doing the same.

im not a 1500 pt player so i cant really give you much more help than I already have, but i see you liked the daemonettes a lot better than plaguebearers so i think my work here is done haha.

IMO unless you are taking 4 MC's with tzeentch/flickering fire and horrors you are way better off with slaanesh DP's shooting str 6-9 2d6 shots that dont give out fnp when you flub, the downside to this list is that slaan dp's are not as survivable for a few reasons. first off they dont reroll ones, and secondly you are forced to spend a greater reward on your lash instead of defensive rewards.

Also id just like to throw a LOL at ceann fine who clearly still doesnt get it. and not to be super rude, but if you dont know what the feth you're talking about it's best you dont talk at all.