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The updated datasheet for the Skyshield Landing Pad in Stronghold Assault introduces the Ready for Takeoff upgrade. This upgrade allows a Hover-capable flyer to be deployed on the Skyshield in hover mode on turn 1 instead of staying in reserved. There's other things associated with the upgrade but my question is concerning that specific piece.

[...] When deploying your army, you can deploy one of your Flyers with the Hover type on top of each of your Skyshield Landing Pads that has this upgrade, even though Flyers normally have to start the game in reserve. [...]

Since fortifications can be placed outside of your deployment zone on your table half, can you deploy the flyer still on the skyshield landing pad if you paid for this upgrade if it's placed outside of your zone?

Fortifications must be deployed wholly within the owning players deployment zone.

BRB page 120, set up fortifications. Its even bolded to stand out.

And Stronghold assault is a supplement book, not a datasheet

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
Fortifications must be deployed wholly within the owning players deployment zone.

BRB page 120, set up fortifications. Its even bolded to stand out.

And Stronghold assault is a supplement book, not a datasheet

Actually the bolded text says "wholly within the owning player's table half and not within 3" of another fortification" on BRB page 120. I don't see it changed in an FAQ either. The question still stands.


Yes SA is a supplement book but by saying datasheet I meant the actual fortification rules contained with in it.

You know what i knew the page number off hand but had flubbed the rule in my memory, just doublechecked the actual page and you are wholly correct.

The Special rule allows for you to alter its deployment from in reserve to on the pad... So yeah anywhere you place the pad is fine.

Yup, no requirement for the pad to be in your deployment zone.

The question does "can deploy on the shield" override "must deploy in deployment zone."

As a general rule, "must" overrides "can" without explicit permission. I suspect GW didn't intend for you to load up a Storm Raven with Assault Marines at the middle of the table and pull off a 1st turn assault. Deployment zones are not explicitly overridden.

No, you can't, RAW or RAI.

By that logic, the flyer would have to stay in reserve anyway, since the flyer rules say they must do so...

You're given specific permission to deploy the flyer on the skyshield.

First turn assaults have been possible for various armies for the last several editions.

 insaniak wrote:
By that logic, the flyer would have to stay in reserve anyway, since the flyer rules say they must do so...

You're given specific permission to deploy the flyer on the skyshield.

First turn assaults have been possible for various armies for the last several editions.

No, the flyer rules are explicitly overridden.

By a rule that state to deploy directly onto the pad, with no further restrictions that the pad has to be in the deployment zone in order to evoke this rule.

JinxDragon wrote:
By a rule that state to deploy directly onto the pad, with no further restrictions that the pad has to be in the deployment zone in order to evoke this rule.

But to deploy during deployment, it must be in the deployment zone. Models have had permission since 6th edition began to deploy on or in Fortifications. All of the fortifications have had the ability to be placed outside the deployment zone. Are you now saying that any model can be placed on or in one outside a deployment zone?

The rules for fortification do out-right states that the fortification in question must be deployed inside the deployment zone to deploy units within it. Had it simply left off at 'any unit can deploy into a fortification' then we would be able to deploy normal units outside of the deployment zone regardless of where that zone ended as well. This is an interesting little point, but it is completely irreverent to the deployment of a flier onto a sky-shield because it is a general restriction for deployment in fortifications. It is already over-written in other situations, a few re-deployment special rules and the likes grant the ability to deploy into forward fortifications.

Therefore, I bring your notice to the lack of 'if the Sky-Shield is deployed wholly in the deployment zone' found within the rule granting permission to deploy the flier onto the shield. Given that general rules for deploying can be over-written by more specific deployment rules, and the Sky-Shield rules already over-write other general limitations on deployment, it is obvious that it over-writes this restriction as well. All because it lacks any additional restriction stating that the flier can only evoke this rule if it also meets X and Y conditions. After all, demanding the general rules for deployment still are followed would render the Flier unable to deploy in the first place.

JinxDragon wrote:
The rules for fortification do out-right states that the fortification in question must be deployed inside the deployment zone to deploy units within it.

Exactly. It is not required in the Sky Shield rules because it follows the rules for Fortifications. The Sky Shield rules must explicitly override a rule, which it most definitely does not in the case of deployment zones.

Angelic wrote:

JinxDragon wrote:
The rules for fortification do out-right states that the fortification in question must be deployed inside the deployment zone to deploy units within it.

Exactly. It is not required in the Sky Shield rules because it follows the rules for Fortifications. The Sky Shield rules must explicitly override a rule, which it most definitely does not in the case of deployment.

Agreed. There's no difference between the permission here and the permission for Broadsides to embark in a Bastion.
Neither has permission to do so outside of the deployment zone without Infiltrate.

It grants permission to over-write deployment restriction by granting permission to deploy in the first place, which is otherwise illegal as well.

JinxDragon wrote:
It state it does grant permission to over-write other deployment restriction by granting permission to deploy in the first place, which is otherwise illegal as well.

It's explicit as to Reserves vs. Normal Deployment, but not deploying in deployment zones.

It states outright to deploy onto the sky-shield, so permission to deploy a flier outside of normal deployment rules as long as it is on the shield has been granted.

JinxDragon wrote:
It states outright to deploy onto the sky-shield, if you do not place the flier onto the sky-shield have you obeyed this rule?

You have if you've placed it in Reserve.

JinxDragon wrote:
It grants permission to over-write deployment restriction by granting permission to deploy in the first place, which is otherwise illegal as well.

It grants permission to over-write a single deployment restriction.
It does not say to ignore all deployment restrictions.

I bring an Assault Vehicle on from Reserves and disembark the contents. Are they allowed to charge? No.

I attempt to place my Flyer in my deployment half instead of deployment zone. 2 rules disallow that - one, being able to deploy a Flyer with the rest of your units. The Skyshield voids that restriction and allows me to place it.
The second is that I am not allowed to deploy outside my deployment zone. The Skyshield rule is silent on that so it must still be enforced.

Okay, let me re-phase then:
If you evoke this rule, and then do not deploy the flier onto the sky-shield for any reason, have you obeyed this rule?

JinxDragon wrote:
Okay, let me re-phase then:
If you evoke this rule, and then do not deploy the flier onto the sky-shield for any reason, have you obeyed this rule?

No - because you were not permitted to evoke the rule in the first place.

I place a Bastion as close to the centerline as legally allowed and wish to embark my Broadsides in it.
Cite the denial. Then explain why that denial does not also apply to the Skyshield.

JinxDragon wrote:
Okay, let me re-phase then:
If you evoke this rule, and then do not deploy the flier onto the sky-shield for any reason, have you obeyed this rule?

Have you obeyed this rule?

JinxDragon wrote:
The rules for fortification do out-right states that the fortification in question must be deployed inside the deployment zone to deploy units within it.

It is possible to follow all of the rules. You are proposing a false dilemma.

There is an interesting side thought:
The restriction you are quoting is for deploying into a fortification. As the Sky-shield is not a building, so it has no rule granting permission for models to be within it to start with, further restrictions on deployment are meaningless. Still, one could fall back onto the paragraph above this section requiring the entire army to be deployed onto the deployment zone as the restriction being quoted. As you do make a decent argument that both rules can be obeyed, so therefore should be obeyed, it does raise some strong questions concerning the writers intent with this rule.

So at this point I would like to see some errata to explain this rule better, errata I already believed would introduce additional restrictions on how the sky-shield has to be deployed in the first place.

Till then, if someone deployed a flier onto a forward sky-shield I do not feel I have enough rule backing to deny it. The line 'must deploy here' does carry a lot of weight given it's lack of more precise instructions when it comes to deploying onto the sky-shield. I will just have to be happy that said flier is going to go away on turn one and not pester my army, well if I didn't have a dedicated anti-air commander in any case. After all it would start the game in range of all my anti-tank weapons range and no longer have the Hard to Hit special rule to defend itself.

Angelic wrote:
No, the flyer rules are explicitly overridden.

You have one rule saying that the flyer must start in reserve, and another saying that the flyer can start deployed on the table. You just stated that 'must' over-rides 'can'.