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I'm sure this has been asked, but I cant find it by searching.

If at 2000pts I can take two allied detachments does that mean I can take:

1 HQ
1 Troop
2 Elites


or would I need to take

2 HQ
2Troop
2 Elites

to get the second Elite slot??

I would be planning to take

Belial
Deathwing terminators (5)
Deathwing knights (5)
Mortis dreadnought

Cheers

Tris

If you've taken 2 primary detachments, you may take one allied detachment per primary.

2 primary detachments would require you to have taken 2 HQ and 4 Troops.

The 2 allied detachments would require you to have taken 2 HQ and 2 Troops to be legal.

In total you'd then have (at minimum) 4 HQ and 6 troop choices in your total army.

Also remember the primary detachments both have to be from the same codex, and the allied detachments must be from the same codex (but different to the primary).

Cool, I'd probably only take this in apocalypse scale battles but that could be pretty cool. Id take Black templars and Dark templars (black templars using DA rules using DA models Black templared)

Here is an accurate version of the expanded FOC I've been working on. Its not 100% clear if you can have more then one Lord of War in an army so I've only listed that slot once.

 optometris wrote:
Cool, I'd probably only take this in apocalypse scale battles but that could be pretty cool. Id take Black templars and Dark templars (black templars using DA rules using DA models Black templared)

To be fair if your are playing Apoc then their is no FoC to speak of generally

It's a misconception that 2000 points "doubles your force org." It sort of does. What it allows you to do is take a second primary detachment. As a primary detachment, your second group of guys would need to adhere to basic force org, meaning 1 default HQ and 2 basic troops.

Which essentially means 2 HQs and 4 troops minimum, and THEN you can go hog-wild.

Allied detachments must still adhere to basic force org, as well, meaning each allied detachment needs 1 HQ, 1 troop, and can only bring Elite/FA/HS slots if you've got them open in your basic detachments.

Can allies get a fortification? Or only your secondary detachment?

 DJGietzen wrote:
Here is an accurate version of the expanded FOC I've been working on. Its not 100% clear if you can have more then one Lord of War in an army so I've only listed that slot once.

DJGietzen you have just won YMDC with this. Absolutely brilliant!

DJGietzen,
But what if I am a Stronghold defender?

stronghold is a non-standard form of 40k. This is for standard games.

Remind me to put 'not a serious question' tags on it or something as I was being humorous. You have done a great deal of work in improving the force organization chart, seeing the old one is obsolete sever times over. I have a few questions as to how accurate it is, only because I don't know off the top of my hand all the Force Organization changes that have taken place, but I trust the research you have put into this makes it more accurate then anything I can produce. Now if there is only a way to get Game Workshop to add it to Errata so more people would see it....

SRSFACE wrote:
It's a misconception that 2000 points "doubles your force org." It sort of does. What it allows you to do is take a second primary detachment. As a primary detachment, your second group of guys would need to adhere to basic force org, meaning 1 default HQ and 2 basic troops.

Which essentially means 2 HQs and 4 troops minimum, and THEN you can go hog-wild.

Think that's exactly what I said already, no?

Allied detachments must still adhere to basic force org, as well, meaning each allied detachment needs 1 HQ, 1 troop,

Yes ..

and can only bring Elite/FA/HS slots if you've got them open in your basic detachments.

Wait .. what? "if you've got them open in your basic detachments"? Each Allied detachment may take one Elite, one fast and one heavy, no matter how many you have (or don't have) in your primary detachment.

Was reiterating what you said, not contradicting it.

And what I meant by "open in your basic detachments" was "you can bring one if you have a corresponding primary detachment from the same slot org type". I can see how that'd generate confusion, so my bad there.

And each allied detachment can only have an elite/FA/HS if the primary detachment also has one. If you are Raven Guard allied with Iron Hands, you cannot bring an Iron Hands Vindicator if your Raven Guard heavy support is empty. I am sure you know that, but just stating it here in case people didn't know, for clarification purposes.

SRSFACE wrote:
\
And what I meant by "open in your basic detachments" was "you can bring one if you have a corresponding primary detachment from the same slot org type". I can see how that'd generate confusion, so my bad there.

And each allied detachment can only have an elite/FA/HS if the primary detachment also has one. If you are Raven Guard allied with Iron Hands, you cannot bring an Iron Hands Vindicator if your Raven Guard heavy support is empty. I am sure you know that, but just stating it here in case people didn't know, for clarification purposes.

Can you point out where it says this in the rules, as I cannot find it.

AFAIK, you can take a Primary Detachment (1 HQ + 2 Troops), then throw on an allied detachment (1 HQ + 1 Troop) with 1 of each of the extra slots, regardless of what's in your primary.

ie :

Raven Guard : HQ + 2 troops (no additional)
Iron Hands : HQ + 1 Troop + 1 Heavy + 1 Elite + 1 fast

SRSFACE wrote:

And each allied detachment can only have an elite/FA/HS if the primary detachment also has one. If you are Raven Guard allied with Iron Hands, you cannot bring an Iron Hands Vindicator if your Raven Guard heavy support is empty. I am sure you know that, but just stating it here in case people didn't know, for clarification purposes.

This is incorrect. When you take an allied detachment the only thing about the primary detachment that matters is the allied relationship.

Srsface,
I also do not remember this rule at all and would like a page and paragraph to review when I get home.

I just left and got to work so I no longer have my book on me either. Pretty sure there's a blurb on that in the Force Org section. I will definitely look it back up when I get home because now y'all have got me second guessing myself.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Welp, I know why I thought that. It was a misunderstanding of the rules from when I first read the rulebook. I read "your army can include one allied detachment for each primary detachment in your army" as "must bring a slot from that force org if you want to bring it in your allied detachment."

I hadn't gone through the rulebook again since I've learned the game better and that misinterpretation stuck with me. :( Sorry.

Cheers for the clarification chaps, DJgeitzen that force org is great!

I reckon I might consider an allied detachment in normal games of
HQ Belial
Troops DW termies
Elites mortis dread


For that added anti air, then throw some deathwing knights in for apoc games as they seem fun.

though ive got a mortis contemptor now for cheaps so ill have to see if i need that anti air enough.

the lowest points bracket i tend to play in these days is 3000pts

Belial only makes DW troops in a primary detachment he does nothing for allies.

 optometris wrote:
Cheers for the clarification chaps, DJgeitzen that force org is great!

I reckon I might consider an allied detachment in normal games of
HQ Belial
Troops DW termies
Elites mortis dread


For that added anti air, then throw some deathwing knights in for apoc games as they seem fun.

though ive got a mortis contemptor now for cheaps so ill have to see if i need that anti air enough.

the lowest points bracket i tend to play in these days is 3000pts

That's the thing. Azrael, Belial and Sammael only make PRIMARY detachments take Deathwing/Ravenwing as troops. Dark Angels make pretty terrible allies as a result, because anything our other default troops choices can do, one of the various Codex Marines chapters can do better.

ah thats scuppered that plan then, cheers for the heads up!