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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/11 19:55:15
Subject: New Tyranids - IB "Devour" + Onslaught
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Agile Revenant Titan
In the Casualty section of a Blood Bowl dugout
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Ok, so I think this is actually a grey area which requires a lot of scrutiny (and an FAQ, in all honesty) rather than me not understanding the rules.
So I have a unit that has become subject to IB (feed) and has rolled "Devour". This states that "in the Shooting phase, the unit cannot shoot or Run". I then cast Onslaught on it, which states that "Whilst the power is in effect, the target unit can both Run and then shoot in its Shooting phase"
So, can this unit shoot or not?
RAW, I think I can. IB has said that I can't run or shoot, but then I've overridden that with Onslaught, which states I CAN run and shoot. There may be some interpretation on the fact that Devour uses "or", whereas Onslaught uses "and". I'd say it can, though my instinct (pun intended) tells me that this isn't what the RAI intends.
Thoughts, dakka?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/11 20:02:59
Subject: New Tyranids - IB "Devour" + Onslaught
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Cowboy Wannabe
London
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I would say no, because onslaught overrides the normal restriction on not being able to shoot and run together from the BRB, it does not override any other restriction.
So while that unit can theoretically do both actions together that it would not normally be able to do, it cannot do either due to the additional restriction due to 'devour'.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/11 20:07:46
Subject: Re:New Tyranids - IB "Devour" + Onslaught
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Grisly Ghost Ark Driver
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Jangustus has it in one.
Onslaught would allow you to perform both actions in a given turn (whereas before you had to pick only one). Your models still have to have permission to perform those actions in the first place to do either, let alone both. 'Devour' seems to negate that permission.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/11 20:08:01
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/11 22:07:18
Subject: New Tyranids - IB "Devour" + Onslaught
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Fixture of Dakka
Vanished Completely
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The 'and' does seem to make a big difference in the reading of this rule but there is also the word 'then' to take into consideration as well. The word 'then' creates a sequence of events within this Special Rule itself: the model must first carry out action A then it can carry out action B. The inclusion of this word makes it possible to argue that it is not granting permission to carry out A, but only granting permission to carry out B after wards. If the model lacks the ability to carry out A to begin with, then a rule granting B afterwards is effectively useless.
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8th made it so I can no longer sway Tau onto the side of Chaos, but they will eventually turn aside from their idea of the Greater Good to embrace the Greatest of pleasures. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/11 22:19:01
Subject: Re:New Tyranids - IB "Devour" + Onslaught
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Neorealist wrote:Jangustus has it in one.
Onslaught would allow you to perform both actions in a given turn (whereas before you had to pick only one). Your models still have to have permission to perform those actions in the first place to do either, let alone both. 'Devour' seems to negate that permission.
This.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/11 23:48:37
Subject: New Tyranids - IB "Devour" + Onslaught
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Agile Revenant Titan
In the Casualty section of a Blood Bowl dugout
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Jangustus wrote:I would say no, because onslaught overrides the normal restriction on not being able to shoot and run together from the BRB, it does not override any other restriction.
So while that unit can theoretically do both actions together that it would not normally be able to do, it cannot do either due to the additional restriction due to 'devour'.
This was one of my interpretations. However, I also thought that the permission to "run and shoot" overrides Devour's "do neither". Taken explicitly, Onslaught allows you to "run and shoot", so you can do it.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/12 00:06:19
Subject: New Tyranids - IB "Devour" + Onslaught
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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No, it is not specific enough
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/12 00:09:05
Subject: New Tyranids - IB "Devour" + Onslaught
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Grisly Ghost Ark Driver
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The Shadow wrote:Taken explicitly, Onslaught allows you to "run and shoot", so you can do it.
Not quite. Explicitly, it gives you permission to run 'and' shoot, as opposed to the default run 'or' shoot. What it doesn't do is give you permission to shoot, or for that matter to run to begin with. The default rules do that.
Normal
model may run or shoot in the shooting phase.
Onslaught
model may run and shoot in the shooting phase
Devour
model may not run or shoot in the shooting phase.
Devour + Onslaught
model may not run and shoot in the shooting phase.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/01/12 00:10:58
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