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So I have been living under a rock and have just discovered Mantic Games and Kings of War. Being an ex-Warhammer/40K player these really appeal to me because, let's be honest, the price is just right. Comparing spending around $165 for a full workable army versus more than that just for a couple of units* is a big thing to me. I am in the process of doing research about the game to determine its viability as an alternative to WHFB as I always preferred that to 40k but the price just isn't doable for me anymore. I came across this and it looks great, if I start it up I might even try to show them off at my FLGS to entice other people away from GW games.

That said have some questions:

1) Most importantly, how are the rules compared to WHFB? I'm guessing its not as "Herohammer" as old WHFB used to be?
2) How is the quality of the figures? The pictures on the website look as good or in some cases better than WHFB. I've never done much conversion so lack of conversion opportunities isn't a big thing for me.
3) Balance? There doesn't seem to be as much variety among armies as WHFB (not yet anyways) so how does it end up playing in practice? Is it possible to have themed armies or does every army of a specific type have the same units due to lack of variety?
4) Is there just the one rulebook? I didn't see the equivalent of Warhammer Army Books on the website
5) How have they not been sued into oblivion by GW? (joking)
5) (For real) I'm hoping they plan to expand the armies available in the future?

* Compared the Undead mega army @ ~$165USD with GW figures, assuming that Grave Guard are equivalent of Revenants, I was at over $181USD just for the equivalent two units of skeleton warriors and one unit of Revenants with GW.

I don't have much experience with KOW itself, but a fair bit with Mantic as a whole, and I've read a lot about KOW. To answer your questions:

1) The rules are simple, fast to learn and play very fast. They are designed to be played at a competitive level, even including rules for timed turns and the like. Don't confuse simplicity for lack of depth, the rules are have plenty of detail to them. The majot differences to WFB are that Magic is less of a power in KOW, and that there is no casualty removal, instead units accrue damage markers that reflect both physical and psychological damage. The more hits you take, the more likely you are to run or be killed.

2) The models are fine, with a few exceptions (the Basalien Men At Arms are poor, but the Paladins and Elohi look amazing). The Undead are pretty much the best out there in that price range, easily on par with GW given the price. the Zombies and Skellies are great, with plenty of conversion chances and variety.

3) Armies can be themed and from what I've read the game is balanced, but I'll let others with more experience speak here. It's certainly not a case of every unit in each army just being reskins of others, so Dwarves, elves and undead all play very differently, for example.

4) All the rules (core and army) are available for free on the Mantic site. The rulebook you can buy has more fluff and magic items, but all the core rules and army lists can be found as PDFs on the website. I'd suggest using those at first and then buying the rulebook once you're certain you'll be playing a lot.

6) Future armies planned for KOW are Abyssals (evil demon things), and a Nature themed army (not wood elves). I think there will be a KS later this year for those two, and maybe more.

Hope that helps.

That actually does a pretty good job of summing it up.

One of the simplifications is simply having almost all the special unit qualities in one place - and making them consistent.

Balance is very good and the rules are very concise - I have yet to see a serious rules argument. The only disputes have always been on the positioning of units - whether the unit is in cover, or which face of a unit gets charged.

As always, the miniatures and how good they are is a matter of taste - some folks like the GW undead better than the Mantic, while others (myself included) prefer the more realistic proportions of the Mantic undead. (Skulls and hands that would actually fit in a scale human miniature.)

The ones most argued are the elves - who are thin and spidery looking - I like them, but I use them for Sidhe instead of elves. They are not proportioned the same as humans.

The dwarfs are another army that gets argued over - again, I like the dwarfs, but their proportions are not all that close to GW dwarfs. (I am very fond of Avatars of War dwarfs - taking them over either the Mantic or GW dwarfs.)

Sadly, the Men at Arms aren't argued about - Mantic got ripped off by the company that made the models, but the contract was poorly worded. They really are pretty danged poor models.

There is another KoW Kickstarter coming up this year - you may want to keep your eyes open for it. (The first KoW Kickstarter was a hoot and a holler - Mantic really did not expect just how big a success they might have. A $5,000 starting goal and a $20,000 Stretch goal, with a comment along the lines of 'we won't reach it, but....' (That stretch goal was covered within a few days - the rest of the Kickstarter was a happy panic. What do we do?! What do we do?! AAAaaahhh!)

The Auld Grump

Sounds really good then. The more I look at it, the more it seems like a great game - simpler than WHFB but with the same feel and more strategy, and a lot easier to get into. Really considering looking at getting into it and trying to introduce the people at my FLGS to it; it'd be a lot easier I would think to get somebody involved in a game where you can tell them for $165 or so you get a fully playable army plus the rules, versus $120 for just the rules and another $300 or more just for the minimum army to play.

If you're looking to introduce more players, then make a point of the fact that they can already use their WFB armies with just a little tweaking, and as the rules are free, if they have a WFB army, there is absolutely no buy-in needed.

Also, if you can contact them through email/facebook, then send them a link to the rules (again pointing out that they are free) so they can get an idea of how it works before playing, rather than going in blind.

 Paradigm wrote:
If you're looking to introduce more players, then make a point of the fact that they can already use their WFB armies with just a little tweaking, and as the rules are free, if they have a WFB army, there is absolutely no buy-in needed.

Also, if you can contact them through email/facebook, then send them a link to the rules (again pointing out that they are free) so they can get an idea of how it works before playing, rather than going in blind.

Very true point. I know that most of the WHFB players went away because 40k was dominating at the store (not sure where they went) but personally I've always preferred WHFB and KOW seems like it took the good parts of WHFB and added more strategy and tactics versus whoever has the biggest, baddest wizard.

It is also to note.. the company is run by ex-GW employees, who have taken the freedom to do what they wanted to do with GW, but were not "allowed"..

So, the rules were written by Alessio Cavatore.. the sci-fi rules written by Jake Thornton.. Ronnie Renton is the head honcho, and has earned points with me for "manning up" to some of the missteps that the company has made..

-Porkuslime

I vaguely recall all of those names I don't remember Ronnie Renton but the name sounds familiar (I think he might have had long hair and looked a bit like a rocker? Or maybe that was someone else; 12 years will make you forget who's who in the old White Dwarf mags).

The big thing for me is how simplistic the rules are without being TOO simple, and simple enough to allow for flexibility in creating your own rules/scenarios for campaigns. That and the fact that a boxed army is like $175 for a fully playable army at a decent points sized versus nearly that much for the rules alone with WHFB or 40k. I also like how the rules are abstract enough that it seems they could apply to, say, historical battles as well if you chose.

The only downside I can see is that the figure quality isn't that great (it doesn't look terrible to me, however), there isn't much exposure to other gamers and the lines are still being developed so there isn't much variety in the models (although I did notice that the army lists have more things than the actual range, presumably to allow for using GW and other figures).