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Made in us
Boom! Leman Russ Commander






Seems like every thread I read, i see spammed all over the place page after page after page "40k is soooooo horrible!!!!!", "40k sucks@^$%$^ &&$%^$", "0k rules are the worst of any game ever" and so on and on and on.
The question is this, if it is soooooo horrible, than why do you continue to play it? In terms of actual rules, it is currently the best and most balanced they have done. This does not mean that they are perfect. We as gamers are smart enough to see and use loopholes and exploits and see goofs. But how can you ever enjoy a game if all you ever focus on is the imperfect aspects? If you spend 100% of your time involved in the game trying your absolute best to look for and try to find something wrong or something that can be represented as wrong, you are going to find something.

why not look for aspects that you might enjoy? Why not try to actually have a little FUN (gasp, oh the HORROR, not FUN!!!).
If you hate the game so much, save yourself the headache and just dont play the game. There are other games that you might like, chess or checkers or warmachine or risk or diablo, something that makes you happy. From all appearances it looks as though there are a lot of players who hate 40k and are only doing their best to convince others to hate it as well. This is not good for the hobby, the gaming industry as a whole and not good for yourself or the people you are trying to "turn'.

clively wrote:
"EVIL INC" - hardly. More like "REASONABLE GOOD GUY INC". (side note: exalted)

Seems a few of you have not read this... http://www.dakkadakka.com/core/forum_rules.jsp 
   
Made in us
Tzeentch Aspiring Sorcerer Riding a Disc




The darkness between the stars

oh that's actually rather simple. Because you can make your own rules quite easily. For your group of friends you can. Along with that, there is the investment sensation. People have spent tons of money on it. It makes you feel invested to it no matter how good or bad the rules are. Though they aren't the worst rules ever by a long shot. Anyways, the rules aren't actually that great. They still drastically favor shooting and whether you prefer shooting or not, it does favor shooting and has for an edition or two before now. Along with that, faq can help but I've seen bad questions never get answered (heck look at YMDC). For example, I play CSM. My favorite god is Tzeentch. I want to deploy Tzeentch. I want to deploy Thousand Sons. Except Tzeentch isn't a good choice for anything but one model (daemon princes) and is often a worthless overpriced upgrade. Khorne isn't much better. So what? Should I be happy that SM got a way to represent chapters and even companies when I can't even deploy a single legion and the fluffiest thing that works is nurgle (which honestly I confess I care the least for)

I can still have fun yes but that doesn't mean I don't criticize the flaws of the game. I love the fluff of the game, I like most of the models, I am invested into this with hundreds of dollars and even more hours and I can have fun but it doesn't mean I can deny the fact that many games have better rules just not always better character. Also subjective fun!

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Made in us
Douglas Bader






 EVIL INC wrote:
The question is this, if it is soooooo horrible, than why do you continue to play it?


Because of the fluff and models, because everyone else plays it and it's the only real option for a wargame in their area, or because they're reluctant to abandon their investment in the game.

In terms of actual rules, it is currently the best and most balanced they have done.


Which just says that GW's "best" is pretty pathetic.

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in nz
Heroic Senior Officer




New Zealand

I hate the fluff and find the models really boring (a lot of them) but the game is great for just changing and making up bits and pieces. The game is dead easy and well its fun.

The people i know hate the company more than the game. I find its the people who play competitively are the ones who are most vocal about it, whilst the more casual guys dont see as many flaws and a more ok with mending it themselves.
   
Made in gb
Ruthless Interrogator





The hills above Belfast

 Swastakowey wrote:
I hate the fluff and find the models really boring (a lot of them) but the game is great for just changing and making up bits and pieces. The game is dead easy and well its fun.

The people i know hate the company more than the game. I find its the people who play competitively are the ones who are most vocal about it, whilst the more casual guys dont see as many flaws and a more ok with mending it themselves.


Agree, always the hyper competitive little bunnies that complain the most. It just seems to be in them to push their own ideas right to the front screaming 'if I was in charge it would be different!' well your not, so keep trying!

EAT - SLEEP - FARM - REPEAT  
   
Made in us
Tzeentch Aspiring Sorcerer Riding a Disc




The darkness between the stars

Knockagh wrote:
 Swastakowey wrote:
I hate the fluff and find the models really boring (a lot of them) but the game is great for just changing and making up bits and pieces. The game is dead easy and well its fun.

The people i know hate the company more than the game. I find its the people who play competitively are the ones who are most vocal about it, whilst the more casual guys dont see as many flaws and a more ok with mending it themselves.


Agree, always the hyper competitive little bunnies that complain the most. It just seems to be in them to push their own ideas right to the front screaming 'if I was in charge it would be different!' well your not, so keep trying!


I wouldn't say that us fluff bunnies or other groups are much better . We have a lot of... odd opinions. Heck, spamming an army is a terrible thing to many that makes you scorned. Unfluffy lists are hissed at, we can go on drolling about our own custom fluff, etc. I criticize the game because I love it. Nothing is perfect and nothing will ever be for all people. I criticize the rules because I have to change them to make it bearable, I have to take time out of my schedule to try and figure out how to deploy my most loved army that isn't worth it itself. And in the end I will be slow because not everybody will like what I make and I am afraid of making changes that make my guys too good. I also just wanted to say that there are many reasons people can complain about gw (units taken out, fluff changed, good models become bad, units become broken, unplayable, imbalanced, deleted fluff) it all gains ire and criticism. We just see it being worse on the other side it seems

It's more of it makes me not want to do pick up games. I don't want to take The burning chariot of tzeentch if the only way to shoot the thing is if it doesn't move or something like that. It's a pain but I can do it in my group. But I'm not gonna start every pick up game asking them this this this and maybe this and then working through it, forcing them to memorize it, etc, etc.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/12 08:30:11


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Made in jp
Cosmic Joe





I love the models but I especially love the fluff and setting. I grew up with it. The rules, I honestly could care less about as long as they don't get in the way. (If they do, me and my friends just house rule it and get around it.)

That said, for people doing pick up games with strangers at stores...sorry. That kind of sucks. GW really needs to get a team that can write rules so Warhammer can become known as a great game as well as a great setting. Honestly, I think Warmachine's rules are much better and probably more fun.



Also, check out my history blog: Minimum Wage Historian, a fun place to check out history that often falls between the couch cushions. 
   
Made in ph
Utilizing Careful Highlighting





Manila, Philippines

If you don't like the game and stop playing and criticized the game, people will tell you "how can you criticize it if you don't even play the game?"

If you don't like the game and you still play the game and you criticized the game, people will tell you "if you hate it so much why do you still play it?"

That's a no-win scenario, right there.


 
   
Made in us
Boom! Leman Russ Commander






 Swastakowey wrote:
IThe people i know hate the company more than the game. I find its the people who play competitively are the ones who are most vocal about it, whilst the more casual guys dont see as many flaws and a more ok with mending it themselves.

This appears to be more the truth. From what I have seen here, it is the hardcore guys who HAVE to win every game who generally complain about the rules because they dont get the free win every time they play the game. Because of this they aggressively attack the game and try to convince other players to not play the game.

The thing is, there are a butt ton of other viable games with cool rules and cool models (some with models better, most with subpar models that are usually boring. These other games dont cost any more and many cost a little less to play. All area easily started and many are of similar size where the investment can easily be translated directly into the new game.

I love the dark and gloomy setting and the fluff (I DO wish they wold be more consistant with the fluff and that is one of my major gripes). I also have the major gripe about their pricing (which in turn sets the prices for almost all of the other wargames, but those are failings of "corporate".


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 heartserenade wrote:
If you don't like the game and stop playing and criticized the game, people will tell you "how can you criticize it if you don't even play the game?"

If you don't like the game and you still play the game and you criticized the game, people will tell you "if you hate it so much why do you still play it?"

That's a no-win scenario, right there.

if you hate the game and dont play it, there is no reason to spend all of your time on sites dedicated solely to it. Thats like breaking up with a GF and then stalking her everywhere she goes and trying to beat up any male person she talks to. Your going where you should not be WANTING to go harrassing others who like something you dont JUST because they like it trying to convince them to not like it either. THATS the no one situation right there.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/12 14:21:08


clively wrote:
"EVIL INC" - hardly. More like "REASONABLE GOOD GUY INC". (side note: exalted)

Seems a few of you have not read this... http://www.dakkadakka.com/core/forum_rules.jsp 
   
Made in ph
Utilizing Careful Highlighting





Manila, Philippines

Automatically Appended Next Post:


if you hate the game and dont play it, there is no reason to spend all of your time on sites dedicated solely to it. Thats like breaking up with a GF and then stalking her everywhere she goes and trying to beat up any male person she talks to. Your going where you should not be WANTING to go harrassing others who like something you dont JUST because they like it trying to convince them to not like it either. THATS the no one situation right there.


If I remember correctly, this site is for wargaming and not just for 40k, yes?

Even if this is dedicated solely to 40k, saying "there is no reason" to criticize it is just, to put it bluntly, a very dumb thing to say. We're here to discuss the hobby, and criticism is a part of the hobby, unless you just want to hear "40k is so good" ad infinitum. No discussion will happen if you just hear the same thing being echoed by different people: you need a counterpoint. Where do you think it is appropriate to air out these criticisms, i wonder?

Also, going back to you. "If you hate 40k criticism and don't agree with it, there is no reason to spend all of your time making a thread about it."

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/01/12 15:07:31



 
   
Made in gb
Prophetic Blood Angel Librarian




I played red alert 2. Everyone complained about how broken prism tanks and super weapons were. There were online matchs which banned the use of them... I still played and liked red alert 2. Just because someone dislikes a certain aspect does not mean they dislike the entire thing.
Oh and i've spent thousands on the hobby, I also have friends into the hobby. If I bought a house in an area I liked and then the area went downhill would I not be allowed to complain about the area becoming less desirable by your logic? Would your response just be 'stop annoying me and just move'? Despite my investment and friends being in the area?
Also quick question for you. If you hate people complaining about the game rules so much, why do you click on threads whos titles make it blatent you will see exactly that? Doing so makes your above statement incredibly hypocritical.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




West Midlands (UK)

 heartserenade wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:


if you hate the game and dont play it, there is no reason to spend all of your time on sites dedicated solely to it. Thats like breaking up with a GF and then stalking her everywhere she goes and trying to beat up any male person she talks to. Your going where you should not be WANTING to go harrassing others who like something you dont JUST because they like it trying to convince them to not like it either. THATS the no one situation right there.


If I remember correctly, this site is for wargaming and not just for 40k, yes?

Even if this is dedicated solely to 40k, saying "there is no reason" to criticize it is just, to put it bluntly, a very dumb thing to say. We're here to discuss the hobby, and criticism is a part of the hobby, unless you just want to hear "40k is so good" ad infinitum. Where do you think it is appropriate to air out these criticisms, i wonder?

Also, going back to you. "If you hate 40k criticism and don't agree with it, there is no reason to spend all of your time making a thread about it."


True, technically.

And yet, it seems a problem particular to 40K (perhaps because it is the largest game). I don't see anywhere near as many trolls haunting .. say .. Malifaux forums, trying to convince people who enjoy Malifaux that the game they enjoy is a piece of gak. If you think Malifaux is gak (and it is, IMO), you simply pick up better games (e.g. Warhammer 40K) and leave the Malifaux-people to their hobby.

   
Made in ph
Utilizing Careful Highlighting





Manila, Philippines

Maybe because most of them are actually happy with the game? SHOCK HORROR


 
   
Made in se
Glorious Lord of Chaos






The burning pits of Hades, also known as Sweden in summer

Because nowhere else can I sate my SPEHHS MAHREENS addiction.

Space Marine and Dawn of War II only last so long.

Currently ongoing projects:
Horus Heresy Alpha Legion
Tyranids  
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




 EVIL INC wrote:

This appears to be more the truth. From what I have seen here, it is the hardcore guys who HAVE to win every game who generally complain about the rules because they dont get the free win every time they play the game. Because of this they aggressively attack the game and try to convince other players to not play the game.
.


Want me to hold your high horse while you come down?

*shrug*. Honestly? Whatever floats your boat, bud. Seems you've got your mind made up, and you've got your scapegoats ready, damn any other conflicting opinions that clash with the worldview that it's only waacers who complain.

Plenty folks complain. For a lot of reasons. What you say is both short sighted and narrow minded. Plenty folks other than waacers have issues with the game, and a lot of it is more than 'I have to win every game' (that's just bloody rude)and ranged from issues with its structure, mechanisms, with its balance (or lack of it), with the lack of company support, faqs etc. plenty people want a fame that works, not a game they have to fix themselves.

And in case you didn't notice, it's a forum. People are allowed discuss things - that includes complaints. What's next - officially sanctioned discussion topics that evil inc approves of?
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




West Midlands (UK)

 heartserenade wrote:
Maybe because most of them are actually happy with the game? SHOCK HORROR


Presumably because those that aren't happy with it, don't stick around to make everyone as unhappy as themselves.

   
Made in ph
Utilizing Careful Highlighting





Manila, Philippines

Oh, so it's a "only people happy with 40k are allowed to talk because they're decent people and totally not trolls" forum now? Didn't know about that.


 
   
Made in no
Liche Priest Hierophant





Bergen

I have actually not played warhammer for a year now. It is a terrible game from a game design standpoint.

The very short reason why it is a bad game is because the game really caters to people who like fantasy, fellowship, expresion and for the rule buffs might also like discovery. This puts them at odds with the people who play the game for challenge and competition.

When you leave the diferent aesthetics that warhammer aside and look at the game it is not elegant design. The rules are not intuetive. I have yet to play a game of warhammer where I did not have a different interpetation of the rules then my opponent. When this happens I just nod and move along. Also, the way the rules are made in batches means that there will never be a golden age where all the codexes are balanced. Warhammer will by defenition always be a poorly balanced game with confusing rules. In short, warhammer is a fun hobby but a terible game.

You might ask why am I here on the forum? I desided to revisit it now that the tyranid codex is out. My ccodex was deleied, so all I know is from the dakka forum.

Update: You might not understand my argumentaition. These people explain something very dificult very easaly. It will linder your frustartion when thinking about warhammer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uepAJ-rqJKA

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/12 15:43:24


   
Made in gb
Prophetic Blood Angel Librarian




Deadnight wrote:
 EVIL INC wrote:

This appears to be more the truth. From what I have seen here, it is the hardcore guys who HAVE to win every game who generally complain about the rules because they dont get the free win every time they play the game. Because of this they aggressively attack the game and try to convince other players to not play the game.
.


Want me to hold your high horse while you come down?

*shrug*. Honestly? Whatever floats your boat, bud. Seems you've got your mind made up, and you've got your scapegoats ready, damn any other conflicting opinions that clash with the worldview that it's only waacers who complain.

Plenty folks complain. For a lot of reasons. What you say is both short sighted and narrow minded. Plenty folks other than waacers have issues with the game, and a lot of it is more than 'I have to win every game' (that's just bloody rude)and ranged from issues with its structure, mechanisms, with its balance (or lack of it), with the lack of company support, faqs etc. plenty people want a fame that works, not a game they have to fix themselves.

And in case you didn't notice, it's a forum. People are allowed discuss things - that includes complaints. What's next - officially sanctioned discussion topics that evil inc approves of?


Exalt! He complains a lot for someone who doesnt like complaining. Plus when on previous threads I make a good point that would be hard to counter, he just dissapears from it. I wonder whose actually close-minded?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and it seems he believes insults and anecdotal 'evidence' constitutes proof.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/12 15:36:10


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




West Midlands (UK)

 heartserenade wrote:
Oh, so it's a "only people happy with 40k are allowed to talk because they're decent people and totally not trolls" forum now? Didn't know about that.


You can do whatever you like. I am simply observing different behaviours.

   
Made in gb
Prophetic Blood Angel Librarian




 Zweischneid wrote:
 heartserenade wrote:
Oh, so it's a "only people happy with 40k are allowed to talk because they're decent people and totally not trolls" forum now? Didn't know about that.


You can do whatever you like. I am simply observing different behaviours.


Its possible to be happy with certain aspects though and not others. I enjoy watching Barcalona games in the CL but I can't stand the amount they cheat (dive, mob the ref etc.)
   
Made in us
Boom! Leman Russ Commander






 heartserenade wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:


if you hate the game and dont play it, there is no reason to spend all of your time on sites dedicated solely to it. Thats like breaking up with a GF and then stalking her everywhere she goes and trying to beat up any male person she talks to. Your going where you should not be WANTING to go harrassing others who like something you dont JUST because they like it trying to convince them to not like it either. THATS the no one situation right there.


If I remember correctly, this site is for wargaming and not just for 40k, yes?

let me scroll up to the top of the page.... ahh here it is, a copy and paste of the forum section we are in "Forum Index ยป 40K General Discussion". now there are warmachine sections here as well. I dont play war machine. it may be a perfectly good game. But as I dont play it, you dont see me going into that section and hijacking threads and spamming all over the place how much it sucks, should never have been, anyone who plays it is stupid and so on and so forth. But we see that here from those wh oprofess to hate 40k and everything about it.
i made the thread in hopes of wondering why this mentyality would occurr. As I showed, it is unfortunately, "stalker mentality". Maybe I'll just never understand that sort of thinking.

Poly Ranger wrote:
I played red alert 2. Everyone complained about how broken prism tanks and super weapons were. There were online matchs which banned the use of them... I still played and liked red alert 2. Just because someone dislikes a certain aspect does not mean they dislike the entire thing.
Oh and i've spent thousands on the hobby, I also have friends into the hobby. If I bought a house in an area I liked and then the area went downhill would I not be allowed to complain about the area becoming less desirable by your logic? Would your response just be 'stop annoying me and just move'? Despite my investment and friends being in the area?
Also quick question for you. If you hate people complaining about the game rules so much, why do you click on threads whos titles make it blatent you will see exactly that? Doing so makes your above statement incredibly hypocritical.

The issue is that it is not complaining about certain aspects of the game. It is people spamming hate for the entire game and everything about it.
It is also not an issue of buying a house and complaining because the area went downhil, it is a matter of buying a car and purposely driving to the worst criminal activity area and leaving the door open with the keys in it and walking away. and then complaining because it got stolen
It is also not about us avoiding threads that have those posts in them. They are in each and every single thread here spammed.
as i said before, complain and whatever you like, thats your right (not you in particuler, just using the figure of speach), I'm just curious of the mentality.


Exalted

Deadnight wrote:


Want me to hold your high horse while you come down?

*shrug*. Honestly? Whatever floats your boat, bud. Seems you've got your mind made up, and you've got your scapegoats ready, damn any other conflicting opinions that clash with the worldview that it's only waacers who complain.

Plenty folks complain. For a lot of reasons. What you say is both short sighted and narrow minded. Plenty folks other than waacers have issues with the game, and a lot of it is more than 'I have to win every game' (that's just bloody rude)and ranged from issues with its structure, mechanisms, with its balance (or lack of it), with the lack of company support, faqs etc. plenty people want a fame that works, not a game they have to fix themselves.

And in case you didn't notice, it's a forum. People are allowed discuss things - that includes complaints. What's next - officially sanctioned discussion topics that evil inc approves of?
Poly Ranger, this applies to you too.
Reported, asking a simple question is no reason for a personal attack and insults. try to keep it polite.
Personally, I have many issues with the game. Each edition has aspects that I do and dont like and to be honest, the inconsistancy of the fluff has always been a thorn in my side and I honestly feel that switching it from a D^ system to a D10 or percentage system (although the D10 would be faster than the percentage), would allw for more realism and variation while keeping it simple. However, you dont see me hijacking and spamming each and every thread that is started posting page after page of complaints and adding nothing to the actual topic. That is a bit much. I learn each edition and learn to play within the rules of them and enjoy the game as it is focusing more on the aspects I like without letting the aspects I dont ruin my fun. I am the LAST person anyone could call a WAAC player but that doesnt mean i wont discuss the aspects I dont like in a civil conversation when it is on topic. what i am talking about here is when it is not. For example, an OP may say "What special weapon should i put in my tactical squad when facing eldar?" and the "stalker" will start pages of "THE RULES ARE BROKEN! you shouldnt be putting special weapons in your tactical squads because your going to lose anyway.GW sucks and 40k is no good ect ect ect...." A little extreme representation but overall accurate in meaning and intent.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/01/12 15:53:21


clively wrote:
"EVIL INC" - hardly. More like "REASONABLE GOOD GUY INC". (side note: exalted)

Seems a few of you have not read this... http://www.dakkadakka.com/core/forum_rules.jsp 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





The Golden Throne

OP- I dig the game, have for 20 years or so. Collecting the models is a huge part of the 'hobby" for me. I don't consider myself a 40k exclusive wargamer. Just all the other game systems go under or no one around here plays them!

You point is valid but I'll simplify it even more. I don't like country music, but I shouldn't complain about it if others do and listen to it. The problem on the internets and in the shops is people actively love to hate GW. Its weird. Its like talking about a bad exgirlfriend all the time. No body cares dude... lol!
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




The question is this, if it is soooooo horrible, than why do you continue to play it?

Aside for warmachine there is too few people to join a different game . Even WFB isn't realy worth joining , because the last edition cut the number of players by a half , maybe more.
   
Made in us
Boom! Leman Russ Commander






 Byte wrote:
OP- I dig the game, have for 20 years or so. Collecting the models is a huge part of the 'hobby" for me. I don't consider myself a 40k exclusive wargamer. Just all the other game systems go under or no one around here plays them!

You point is valid but I'll simplify it even more. I don't like country music, but I shouldn't complain about it if others do and listen to it. The problem on the internets and in the shops is people actively love to hate GW. Its weird. Its like talking about a bad exgirlfriend all the time. No body cares dude... lol!

Exacty, it why i call it the stalker mentality. But point it out and its like "OH MY GO!!!!! What are you talking about?!?! it's not like that at all!' lol

clively wrote:
"EVIL INC" - hardly. More like "REASONABLE GOOD GUY INC". (side note: exalted)

Seems a few of you have not read this... http://www.dakkadakka.com/core/forum_rules.jsp 
   
Made in se
Civil War Re-enactor





I don't agree with the whole "If you don't like it, quit!" premise generally, but in some cases I feel the same as OP. There are certain posters that go from thread to thread to just piss and moan about how horrible GW is, how much 40K sucks and how everyone that like it are morons.

These people should consider therapy, in my opinion. If they feel so "let down" by a toy company and are so bothered about other people liking what they don't, then they're not healthy people. If a miniature game increases their heart rate as much as it clearly does then I agree, they should go do something else, think about something else, or at the very least go pester someone else.

Shotgun wrote:
I don't think I will ever understand the mentality of people that feel the need to record and post their butthurt on the interwebs.
 
   
Made in ph
Utilizing Careful Highlighting





Manila, Philippines

So you'll report a person just because they disagree with you? Stay classy.

I'm not for nor against 40k. What I'm against is faulty logic: i.e. yours.

i made the thread in hopes of wondering why this mentyality would occurr.


While offending a lot of people in the process. Nice. Really, you need to make a thread in order to know why people would want to complain about something they don't like? Wow.

As I showed, it is unfortunately, "stalker mentality".


See above.

Maybe I'll just never understand that sort of thinking.


If you can't understand why people would want to complain about something they don't like, you're either pretending to not know, or you're just super stupid. Choose.


 
   
Made in us
Painlord Titan Princeps of Slaanesh






Dallas, TX

The game is ever-evolving. The fact that the rules can be changed, and we can pretty much bet on the fact that they WILL be changed, means that when a bad rule set or codex comes out, I just sigh and roll my eyes and play on.

I miss the rhino rush days. I miss 4th edition (one of the best, in my opinion), I miss mechanized armies cruising around, which is how I picture 40k. When you see pictures of whole companies of marines, or descriptions of forces, they have a transport for every single squad. Troops walk very slowly, and need faster ways to get around places.

I don't really like the current edition of rules, but I like the game. I complain about things that are silly (so the blast kills people that aren't under the blast? right. And Coteaz's BIRD SCRATCHES are as strong as my EXPLODING BOLTER SHELL? Sure. Right. And a feeble malnourished cultist is the same strength as an elf artisan citizenry, which is also the same strength as a trained, muscled guardsman? Come on...)

But the game changes, and I will learn the new rules and do what I can with them. I have assault units and shooty units. I can't depend on just assault units because the game does favor shooty. But I have some assault units, because some enemy shooty units are terrible at assault but very good at taking fire, and it's the best way to deal with them.

You know...tactics.

40k Armies I play:


Glory for Slaanesh!

 
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Madrak Ironhide







I like the models. I've painted a lot of them by now.

That's about it.

DR:70+S+G-MB-I+Pwmhd05#+D++A+++/aWD100R++T(S)DM+++
Get your own Dakka Code!

"...he could never understand the sense of a contest in which the two adversaries agreed upon the rules." Gabriel Garcia Marquez, One Hundred Years of Solitude 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control





Silver Spring, MD

 heartserenade wrote:
If you can't understand why people would want to complain about something they don't like, you're either pretending to not know, or you're just super stupid. Choose.


This, basically. EVIL, you've made up your (narrow, narrow little) mind, but I'll say my piece anyway (and you'll ignore it, and you'll post another thread with the exact same topic in two weeks).

If you actually care to hear why some people complain about the game, I have been playing 40k since 2nd edition. Among my small gaming group, we have every army in 40k represented. I personally own 2000+ point armies for 7 different races, all fully painted to a fairly high standard. I'm about the farthest thing from a WAAC player. I lose probably 3/4 of the games I play and don't really care. No one in my gaming group fields game-breaking combos. I'm a self-described fluff-bunny. I have a large room in my house dedicated exclusively to 40k, with a 10 foot gaming table, a crapload of terrain, and prints of 40k art on canvas blocks hanging on the walls.

And yet I would say I have a love/hate relationship with 40k. I love most of the fluff but I hate it when a codex or novel craps all over it. I love building and painting models and love most of the models GW makes, but I hate some of the toy-like offerings we've gotten lately, especially when they appear to be almost necessary for a codex to function. I love playing 40k and I genuinely have FUN when playing with my friends, but I'm not stupid either and I realize the ruleset is deeply flawed: from clunky, terrible core mechanics to sloppy writing to severe imbalances (both codex-internal and between armies). Fixing any of those things would do nothing but improve my enjoyment of the game.

It is possible for people to hold nuanced views. It is possible for people to have fun with the game, but also acknowledge that a better ruleset would HELP casual gamers and competitive players alike, and HURT the WAAC players out there. Seriously, where are your critical thinking skills? Clearly written rules and balanced armies make any game easier to play and harder to abuse, and when I see people like you apparently arguing against that idea by saying "love it or leave it", it's mind-bogglingly short sighted and impossible to understand.

EVIL, you probably won't read my post, and if you do I'm pretty sure you won't understand it or won't care. If you do see this, hopefully it was illuminating and have a nice day.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/01/12 16:35:21


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