Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

With the release of the new 'Nid codex we should be expecting to see even more MCs on the table.
What's the best way to take monsters on?

Now for the sake of discussion our goal is to, using only the tools in the Necron codex (so no allies or FW), take down a high toughness, multi-wound, more than likely 2+ armor save having, possibly even highly mobile MC.

So far as I can see, there are two roads available: remove the armor, or ignore it.
Remove (entropic strike)-
• Scarabs are cheap and fast and have a ton of attacks, so even though they can only wound something T6 on a 6, as long as just a single wound gets through, said MC's armor will be gone for the rest of the game... though, if the target is T7 or higher, it won't be able to wound it at all.
• Scarabs on an ADL Quad/Las gun will have the range to be able to hit it from across the table to hopefully remove its armor that way, while getting around the Overwatch fire that normal assaulting Scarabs would have to deal with (plus, the increased strength will allow them to threaten T7+ as well). They're only BS2, but the reroll from the twin linking on the Quad gives them half a chance of hitting it with 4 shots. Not too bad for 145 points.
• Praetorians with Void Blades. Fast and tough with a decent amount of attacks. If given a Destroyer Lord, their chance of landing that crucial rending 6 to deal that wound/remove the armor is significantly increased. Problem is they're going to be expensive.
• Tremor-tek with Harp. Nah, not worth it (single shot, too weak, etc).
Ignore (AP1/2)-
• Deathmarks. Probably the best bet at taking down an MC. Attaching a Despair-tek might not be as worth it, seeing as how the template will only do a single wound to the enemy model. Attaching a Destroyer Lord, on the other hand, would allow them to reroll their 1s to hit and wound, hopefully getting that all important rending 6.
• Wraiths + D.Lord. Vulnerable to Overwatch, but if you can get them into contact with something, that thing is probably going to die.
• Heavy Destroyers. 36" S9 AP2 guns. Nice. When shooting, anything but a 2 is good. Downsides are price and vulnerability (a single wound model for 60 points?). For the same price you could get a Shooty Court of 4 Destruct-teks + a Chrono-tek (4 36" S8 AP2 shots, with a single d6 reroll). Not sure which would be better.
• Praetorians with Rods of the Covenant. AP2 weapons. Only S5 for shooting/S6 for striking, but enough of them together will cause damage. Again, super expensive.
• Lychguard with Warscythes. Nah, too slow/expensive/vulnerable to consider viable. (Consider Monolith and C'tan Shard in this category as well. Possibly Spyders, too).
• Tesla Destructors. No AP, but if you manage to roll a bunch of 6s to drown it in wounds, hopefully enough will get through to weaken the thing.
• Doomscythes/Doomsday Arks. If it hits, its pretty guaranteed to wound... but the problem is, it'll only wound the MC being fired at once. If the thing has enough wounds, it could take you the entire game firing at it with one of these things and you STILL wouldn't be able to kill it.
• Overlord in Command Barge. Fast and can hit the MC multiple times in a single turn (3 on sweep, 3 shots from gun, d6 impact, then 4 when charging, plus d3 of its own attacks back against itself via MSS). If it can make it across the table, very good chance of taking something out.
• Royal Court Disco Inferno. Hell yes. 6 or 7 Warscythes+MSS will mean bad things for any MCs in the way of their party bus. Problem? There's no way you're going to be able to afford this and still have enough points for the rest of your army to be viable.

Anything else?
I'm wondering if sticking a Void Blade on an HQ might be a better option than a Warscythe, when taking on MCs?

 skoffs wrote:
With the release of the new 'Nid codex we should be expecting to see even more MCs on the table.
What's the best way to take monsters on?

Now for the sake of discussion our goal is to, using only the tools in the Necron codex (so no allies or FW), take down a high toughness, multi-wound, more than likely 2+ armor save having, possibly even highly mobile MC.

So far as I can see, there are two roads available: remove the armor, or ignore it.
Remove (entropic strike)-
• Scarabs are cheap and fast and have a ton of attacks, so even though they can only wound something T6 on a 6, as long as just a single wound gets through, said MC's armor will be gone for the rest of the game... though, if the target is T7 or higher, it won't be able to wound it at all.
• Scarabs on an ADL Quad/Las gun will have the range to be able to hit it from across the table to hopefully remove its armor that way, while getting around the Overwatch fire that normal assaulting Scarabs would have to deal with (plus, the increased strength will allow them to threaten T7+ as well). They're only BS2, but the reroll from the twin linking on the Quad gives them half a chance of hitting it with 4 shots. Not too bad for 145 points.
• Praetorians with Void Blades. Fast and tough with a decent amount of attacks. If given a Destroyer Lord, their chance of landing that crucial rending 6 to deal that wound/remove the armor is significantly increased. Problem is they're going to be expensive.
• Tremor-tek with Harp. Nah, not worth it (single shot, too weak, etc).
Ignore (AP1/2)-
• Deathmarks. Probably the best bet at taking down an MC. Attaching a Despair-tek might not be as worth it, seeing as how the template will only do a single wound to the enemy model. Attaching a Destroyer Lord, on the other hand, would allow them to reroll their 1s to hit and wound, hopefully getting that all important rending 6.
• Wraiths + D.Lord. Vulnerable to Overwatch, but if you can get them into contact with something, that thing is probably going to die.
• Heavy Destroyers. 36" S9 AP2 guns. Nice. When shooting, anything but a 2 is good. Downsides are price and vulnerability (a single wound model for 60 points?)
• Praetorians with Rods of the Covenant. AP2 weapons. Only S5 for shooting/S6 for striking, but enough of them together will cause damage. Again, super expensive.
• Lychguard with Warscythes. Nah, too slow/expensive/vulnerable to consider viable. (Consider Monolith and C'tan Shard in this category as well. Possibly Spyders, too).
• Tesla Destructors. No AP, but if you manage to roll a bunch of 6s to drown it in wounds, hopefully enough will get through to weaken the thing.
• Doomscythes/Doomsday Arks. If it hits, its pretty guaranteed to wound... but the problem is, it'll only wound the MC being fired at once. If the thing has enough wounds, it could take you the entire game firing at it with one of these things and you STILL wouldn't be able to kill it.
• Overlord in Command Barge. Fast and can hit the MC multiple times in a single turn (3 on sweep, 3 shots from gun, d6 impact, then 4 when charging, plus d3 of its own attacks back against itself via MSS). If it can make it across the table, very good chance of taking something out.
• Royal Court Disco Inferno. Hell yes. 6 or 7 Warscythes+MSS will mean bad things for any MCs in the way of their party bus. Problem? There's no way you're going to be able to afford this and still have enough points for the rest of your army to be viable.

Anything else?
I'm wondering if sticking a Void Blade on an HQ might be a better option than a Warscythe, when taking on MCs?

Warscythe is still better. Entropic will only work if the model takes an unsaved wound, and at T6 with a 4+/3+ save, that's probably not going to happen. It'll be more efficient to take the option that boosts your lord to S7 and gives him AP1 attacks.

Fair enough, but as far as the other options go, is there anything that sticks out the most?
Or better yet, is there anything that works best in concert with anything else?
(eg. Scarab Turret™ fires at MC to remove armor, Annihilation Barge fires at it afterwards to finish it off).

Wraiths and Destroyer Lords should still chop Tyranid MCs into lunchmeat, especially now that they can't increase their T, get invulnerable saves or reliable FNP.

 Chumbalaya wrote:
Wraiths and Destroyer Lords should still chop Tyranid MCs into lunchmeat, especially now that they can't increase their T, get invulnerable saves or reliable FNP.

Ok, that's true enough... but what about Riptides/Wraithknights?
Wraiths assaulting Riptides have a tendency to get Over watched to death.
(still my biggest concern, as far as MCs go)

Scarab Turret seems like a really hard concept to get off. (Unless you're putting the gun out front.) Am I missing a step here? They can't see over the wall, can they?

I've never thought of using scarabs in a turret before until reading this. Lol...it never occurred to me that could be feasible because come on, scarabs using a turret?

At any rate though Deathmarks are clearly the best at killing MCs. My only issue is that I play a lot of games at 1k points so I can't afford the OL to unlock my despairtek. This takes me two option B..

Wraiths and DLord. I'm yet to find an MC these guys can't handle. Nothing new here but I'd like to add that vs MC heavy lists this classic combo gets better when you are spawning scarabs. Not so much for their entropic strike (although that helps for sure), but for tar pitting. Our wraiths can't be everywhere at once, right? May as well keep the other guys units locked up until our wraiths can get there. Who knows maybe they won't have to worry about armour saves by then either?

Also I think carnifexes went up to I2 so if you didn't need more of a reason to add in a few whip coils then you will now. Those things will be everywhere!

MSU Crypteks with Eldritch lances in 5man warrior teams in Ghost Arks. Accomplishes much the same as lascannons, that being -> murdering MCs dead.

if you want to be unconventional, Spyders are super cheap and will beat down most MCs for a cheaper price point, all the while spawning you scarabs with which to tie up those MCs.

For wraithknights just the simple blob o' wraiths with the MSS dlord will do

For riptides same thing just be sure to blast things around it with tesla and arc into their entire army since they are probably playing tau castle


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Mainly just be sure to eliminate all sources of markerlights and the ethereal if they have one

Ignoring for a moment the OP's limitation regarding FW, IA12 has some nice anti-MC options-

Tessaract Ark: 48" range S7 AP2 Heavy 3 blasts + 2 gauss/tesla cannons. AV12+QS and a 5++ save makes it very durable and its special rules make it difficult to assault. A bit expensive at 250pts, but worth it in my opinion.

Senrty Pylons: two shot 120" range lascannon with skyfire+interceptor for 135pts, double death ray with a 24" range for 160pts or two shot 48" range S10 AP1 melta blasts for 175pts, comes in units of up to 3 that can mix weapon types. Model itself is 3W T7 Sv3+, which is quite durable.

Tomb Stalker: WS4 BS4 S6 T7 4W I4 4A Ld10 Sv3+. Has a very low profile so it's relatively easy to hide it behind terrain, is immune to the poisoned and fleshbane USRs (wounds on a 6 only) and has outflank, acute senses, deepstrike and hit and run for some added flexibility and has the Rampage USR. Its high initiative makes it a real MC hunter and T7 gives it a real advantage against most nid MCs in cc and if they try to gang up on it it gets more attacks and still gets to strike first against most of the big ones. If all else fails also has a couple of gauss flayers, in case you want to shoot some gaunts or something. A bit pricy at 205 points but definitely viable in my opinion, if only for the amount of attention it seems to draw whenever it hits the table.

 Galorian wrote:
Ignoring for a moment the OP's limitation regarding FW, IA12 has some nice anti-MC options-.

Nothing personal against FW, it's just not everyone else allows it, therefore I wanted something that all Necron players could use.

 skoffs wrote:

 Galorian wrote:
Ignoring for a moment the OP's limitation regarding FW, IA12 has some nice anti-MC options-.

Nothing personal against FW, it's just not everyone else allows it, therefore I wanted something that all Necron players could use.

I know. Necron FW stuff isn't really that powerful (for the point cost), but it does round a few corners we're not particularly good at.

The most complaining I've seen out of people was about the basic Sentry Pylon, and those complaints usually die out as soon as they see how the model plays in an actual game (it's goddamn huge, can't hide behind the ADL, can't move, unreliable shooting due to having few shots, costs a fair bit). I've proxied the Tessaract Ark one time and my opponent was a bit miffed about it, but then I pointed out that it costs like a goddamn Land Raider and generally fires like an Executioner (though a bit more accurate with BS4).

The Tomb Stalker no one ever complains about, usually because it rarely ever makes it to assault anything (a nice if expensive fire magnet) and the fact that it outright sucks compared to the Riptide and Wraithknight.

I will just keep doing what I have been doing. Chilling out inside my vehicles, shooting away at them.

 gwarsh41 wrote:
I will just keep doing what I have been doing. Chilling out inside my vehicles, shooting away at them.

Shooty-Court? (Destruct-teks, possibly with a Chrono-tek, possibly in a Ghost Ark)
How's that been working out for you?
How do you run them?

 skoffs wrote:

 gwarsh41 wrote:
I will just keep doing what I have been doing. Chilling out inside my vehicles, shooting away at them.

Shooty-Court? (Destruct-teks, possibly with a Chrono-tek, possibly in a Ghost Ark)
How's that been working out for you?
How do you run them?

I too am very curious for I have been wanting to try this but haven't had the chance yet. I was thinking about fielding a stalker with the loaded ghost ark and destruct teks to twin link all those S8s. It's part of a pseudo AV13 wall list I have going. With 4/5W MCs everywhere I would think you can't afford to miss one of those.

If you're gonna take a Stalker, take two instead (they're always massive fire magnets). Take one with Heat Ray, one with HGC. You should have most of your bases covered that way.
Fill up Ghost Arks with 2 to 4 Destruct-teks and 5 to 8 Warriors, depending on what points level your FOC allows you to attach Royal Court members to units (alternatively, you can keep the RC together and stick them all in a hijacked GA, but it tends to be better to spread them out so you have multiple big guns all over your table rather than all your eggs in one open topped basket).
Stalker tags an enemy unit, gunboat finishes it off.
For extra lulz, throw in a Doomsday Ark as well. They love the twin linking for their pie plate.

Instead of scarabs, couldnt you use a harbinger of transmogrification. Their Harp of Dissonance has entropic strike. If the quad gun or las gun take on the abilities of the shooter with the scarabs, then this should apply with the cryptek as well, right? You'd have a better BS although it's at the cost of 15 more points. If you wanted to shoot at anything that didnt have too high a toughness, you could shoot it without the gun and just use the cryptek as it has an infinite range on it's harp.

Of course you could use a c'tan with entropic touch or triarch praetorians with void blades to use their entropic strike abilities for the same quad gun combo but there would be to a Much higher points 'buy in' with little to no gain on investment.

Ps. Apologies for the necro post but I havent seen this added anywhere in this thread and considering the significant increase to BS, i thought it was worth mentioning.

Apologies to the mods for replying to this Necro post, but I wanted to address the above comment.

No, the Scarab Quad Gun only works (grants the quad gun Entropic Strike) because the Scarabs themselves have that ability innately.
It would not work with any of the other models you cited because it is not THEY who have the ability, but the weapon they are using (so it would not transfer over to the quad gun).

It would most likely not be worth trying to fire the Harp at an MC, as it is only a single shot that can be easily saved against. In that you need to wound the MC to remove its armor, the chances are so low that it's not even worth considering.

Also, in regards to the Scarab Quad tactic, keep in mind that 7th is fast approaching, and with it will probably come a huge slew of FAQs and errata changes. I wouldn't rely too much on anything that requires a loophole to work until after the dust has settled a bit.

Destrction court is always useful. Str.8 AP2 with 36" range is perfect. Take 5 together for a necron dev squad for a reasonable 175pts.

 buddha wrote:
Destrction court is always useful. Str.8 AP2 with 36" range is perfect. Take 5 together for a necron dev squad for a reasonable 175pts.

Stick'em in a Ghost Ark with a Warrior Phalanx up front for some added protection, take a second court in a second Ghost Ark for maximum trolling.

 Galorian wrote:

 skoffs wrote:

 Galorian wrote:
Ignoring for a moment the OP's limitation regarding FW, IA12 has some nice anti-MC options-.

Nothing personal against FW, it's just not everyone else allows it, therefore I wanted something that all Necron players could use.

I know. Necron FW stuff isn't really that powerful (for the point cost), but it does round a few corners we're not particularly good at.

The most complaining I've seen out of people was about the basic Sentry Pylon, and those complaints usually die out as soon as they see how the model plays in an actual game (it's goddamn huge, can't hide behind the ADL, can't move, unreliable shooting due to having few shots, costs a fair bit). I've proxied the Tessaract Ark one time and my opponent was a bit miffed about it, but then I pointed out that it costs like a goddamn Land Raider and generally fires like an Executioner (though a bit more accurate with BS4).

The Tomb Stalker no one ever complains about, usually because it rarely ever makes it to assault anything (a nice if expensive fire magnet) and the fact that it outright sucks compared to the Riptide and Wraithknight.

I'd second most points here...though the BS4 pylon never seems to land both shots...

 BoomWolf wrote:

 Galorian wrote:

 skoffs wrote:

 Galorian wrote:
Ignoring for a moment the OP's limitation regarding FW, IA12 has some nice anti-MC options-.

Nothing personal against FW, it's just not everyone else allows it, therefore I wanted something that all Necron players could use.

I know. Necron FW stuff isn't really that powerful (for the point cost), but it does round a few corners we're not particularly good at.

The most complaining I've seen out of people was about the basic Sentry Pylon, and those complaints usually die out as soon as they see how the model plays in an actual game (it's goddamn huge, can't hide behind the ADL, can't move, unreliable shooting due to having few shots, costs a fair bit). I've proxied the Tessaract Ark one time and my opponent was a bit miffed about it, but then I pointed out that it costs like a goddamn Land Raider and generally fires like an Executioner (though a bit more accurate with BS4).

The Tomb Stalker no one ever complains about, usually because it rarely ever makes it to assault anything (a nice if expensive fire magnet) and the fact that it outright sucks compared to the Riptide and Wraithknight.

I'd second most points here...though the BS4 pylon never seems to land both shots...

Aye...