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On BRB Page 48 it says:

Monstrous Creatures have the Fear, Hammer of Wrath, Move Through Cover, Relentless and Smash special rules.

On BRB Page 49 it says:

Flying Monstrous Creatures have the Fear, Hammer of Wrath, Move Through Cover, Relentless Smash and Vector Strike special rules.

On BRB Page 22 it says:

Smash: All of the close combat attacks, except Hammer of Wrath Attacks, of a model with this special rule are resolved at AP 2 (unless it's attacking with an AP 1 weapon). Additionally, when it makes its close combat attacks, it can choose to instead make a Smash Attack. If it does so, roll To Hit as normal, but halve its Attacks characteristic. A Smash Attack also doubles the model's Strength (to a maximum of 10) for the purposes of that Attack. Furthermore, a model making a Smash Attack can re-roll its arrnour penetration rolls, but must abide by the second result.

So a Flyrant with Scything Talons(AP 6), Rending Claws(AP 5) or a Bone Sword (AP 3) is always hitting at AP 2?


If I charge (+1 Attack) a Flyrant (4 Attacks) with a pair of Scything Talons (+1 Attack) Total 6 Attacks normal, and instead make a Smash Attack(1/2 Attacks), How many Attacks do I do?
Is it 3 (1/2 of 6) or 4 (1/2 of 5 rounded up + 1 for charge) or 5 (1/2 of 4 rounded up + 1 for scything + 1 for charge)?

Yes.

Bob Answered the 1st question while I was editing to add the 2nd. Thanks, Bob.

To calculate the number of attacks you simply do what the rule tells you to: halve your Attack characteristic. The number in your profile under "A". You then add any bonus attacks you may have (special rules, 2 CCWs, Charging ...)

rounding up?

Jocksrock wrote:
rounding up?

Yes, described somewhere early on in the Rulebook you round up unless otherwise stated. There's also a FAQ giving an example.

Q: The rulebook says that you halve your Attacks characteristic if you perform a Smash attack. However, if a Monstrous Creature has an uneven number of Attacks, (3 for example), but has charged that turn, does it receive the bonus Attack for charging before or after halving its Attacks? (p42)
A: You halve the model’s Attacks characteristic first, then apply any additional modifiers. In the example above, the model would halve its Attacks first (rounding up to 2), then receive a bonus Attack for charging.

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m3440036a_40K_RULEBOOK_v1.5_September_13.pdf
PAge 6

Q: The rulebook says that you halve your Attacks characteristic
if you perform a
Smash
attack. However, if a Monstrous
Creature has an uneven number of Attacks, (3 for example), but
has charged that turn, does it receive the bonus Attack for
charging before or after halving its Attacks? (p42)
A: You halve the model’s Attacks characteristic first, then
apply any additional modifiers. In the example above, the
model would halve its Attacks first (rounding up to 2), then
receive a bonus Attack for charging.

One comment... 1/2 of 4 +1 +1 is only 4. You wouldn't get 5 attacks.

I'm curious on the AP question as well due to the changes of adding AP3 to Bonesword and AP5 to Scything Talon in the new codex.

Smash special rules specific that close combat with this special rules resolve at AP2.

So does rulebook overwrite codex or it's the other way around?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm curious on the AP question as well due to the changes of adding AP3 to Bonesword and AP5 to Scything Talon in the new codex.

Smash special rules specific that close combat with this special rules resolve at AP2.

So does rulebook overwrite codex or it's the other way around?

Smash is the more specific rule and thus overrides the AP values of cc weapons.

doomoftyranids wrote:
I'm curious on the AP question as well due to the changes of adding AP3 to Bonesword and AP5 to Scything Talon in the new codex.

Smash special rules specific that close combat with this special rules resolve at AP2.

So does rulebook overwrite codex or it's the other way around?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm curious on the AP question as well due to the changes of adding AP3 to Bonesword and AP5 to Scything Talon in the new codex.

Smash special rules specific that close combat with this special rules resolve at AP2.

So does rulebook overwrite codex or it's the other way around?

Smash always over-rode the AP value of any weapon utilized by the wielder. It's one of the reasons why so many people use the Black Mace in Codex: Chaos Marines on their Daemon Princes.

the reason for the stated AP is because things other than MC's can take the weapons and thus do not have the smash SR.

I have wondered about smash with a CSM Daemon Prince as well. I do not have the codex or rules in front of me so forgive me if I am wrong.

If a Daemon Prince took the Murder Sword, and was in base contact with the "Murder" victim and used "Smash", would the DP be attacking at Strength 20? and AP1?

IIRC, the Murder Sword states that in base contact with the intended vicitm, the sword doubles the wielder's STR, so if Smash doubles STR to a max of 10, and then the Sword doubles that, that would be STR 20, right?

Just curious really, I've never seen a reason to take the Murder Sword. Does it even Matter what the stength is above 10? I'm not sure.

I forget where exactly, but the rule book says that except for wounds and attacks, not characteristic can improve beyond 10.

The Strength would be capped at 10, as per page 2 Modifiers.

Capped at 10 I believe.

OK, good know. Thanks guys.

It hasn't been mentioned smash does not make your tail attack Ap2. Tail attacks have their own profile they use and are not effected by smash.

 FlingitNow wrote:
It hasn't been mentioned smash does not make your tail attack Ap2. Tail attacks have their own profile they use and are not effected by smash.

A tail attack on a monstrous creature is NOT a close combat attack? I'm curious to know why this wouldn't be AP2.

 Unholyllama wrote:

 FlingitNow wrote:
It hasn't been mentioned smash does not make your tail attack Ap2. Tail attacks have their own profile they use and are not effected by smash.

A tail attack on a monstrous creature is NOT a close combat attack? I'm curious to know why this wouldn't be AP2.

Tyranid codex wrote:Also note that a tail Attack is not affected by other Melee weapons, biomorphs, upgrades or special rules belonging to the owning model, or vice versa. For example, a Hive Tyrant with a heavy venom cannon, a lash whip and bonesword, a prehensile pincer and toxin sacs does not gain an additional Attack for fighting with two close combat weapons, nor does its prehensile pincer tail attack have either the Smash or Poisoned special rules.