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Id love to be among the rich people on hive cities (the ones that live on the higher levels. Escape fighting off world and free from the gangs and so forth of below. Pretty much live my life making money off the poor below. Sounds sad but definately worth hoping for.
I think an important thing to note is that there isn't exactly an "average" Imperial citizen. Worlds can vary massively in terms of culture. Case in point, look at how diverse in mannerisms and dress the IG regiments are. Then there's the fact that the Ecclesiarchy will happily let a culture worship the Emperor pretty much however they want, as long as they do worship him (and pay the tithe). It seems that the Imperium is mostly interested in enforcing dogma and compliance rather than one uniform culture.
Though one could perhaps make very broad generalisations, for example how people on the averge hive world might live.
Here's the link to the article, there will be a link to the thread in there
Eh, I think that article tries to generalise a bit too much. Especially when it says that the Imperium is patriarchial, which is incorrect. As I said, planets can vary massively on that sort of thing, and highly important Imperials such as Inquisitors or High Lords can be women. It's arguable that the Imperium is a patriarchy of sorts, as their eternal leader is a man, but certainly not patrichial in how it behaves.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/01/12 23:29:32
Order of the Righteous Armour - 542 points so far.
Here's the link to the article, there will be a link to the thread in there
Thanks. This is what I was looking for.
As far as discussion goes I guess what I'm interested in is what life is like for a majority. Civilized classed worlds are said to be the most common. So let's start there. We know well the combat roles people play but what about the guy who makes bread or owns a shop.
Seems like person A could shoot person B with the repercussions being everything to not caring or death.
Troike wrote: I think an important thing to note is that there isn't exactly an "average" Imperial citizen. Worlds can vary massively in terms of culture. Case in point, look at how diverse in mannerisms and dress the IG regiments are. Then there's the fact that the Ecclesiarchy will happily let a culture worship the Emperor pretty much however they want, as long as they do worship him (and pay the tithe). It seems that the Imperium is mostly interested in enforcing dogma and compliance rather than one uniform culture.
Though one could perhaps make very broad generalisations, for example how people on the averge hive world might live.
Here's the link to the article, there will be a link to the thread in there
Eh, I think that article tries to generalise a bit too much. Especially when it says that the Imperium is patriarchial, which is incorrect. As I said, planets can vary massively on that sort of thing, and highly important Imperials such as Inquisitors or High Lords can be women. It's arguable that the Imperium is a patriarchy of sorts, as their eternal leader is a man, but certainly not patrichial in how it behaves.
It really comes down to the Imperium being more of a federal dictatorship than anything else. They pretty much leave you alone to do whatever it is what you want to do so long as you meet the levied tithes upon your planet (be it food, industry, men, etc) and accept the GEOM as your god, all's good (which is pretty liberal actually. IIRC, all they care is that you agree that sky-god is the GEOM). Unless Xenos drop in for a visit, Chaos corrupts the planet, or a rebellion if started, you're unlikely to see the IOM's guns pointed at you.
EDIT-
And that page frankly sucks and clashes a lot with the Black Library. At best it might concern corrupt Hive Worlds, but little else. Life actually wouldn't be too horrible in the Imperium so long as you're not in a Hive on the lower/lowest levels or on a crapsack Feral World/Death World.. An Agri-world wouldn't actually be that bad to live on at all. With Hive Worlds it just really comes down to how good or bad the Planetary Governor is and how apparent is Chaos corruption (because than some militarized branch of the IOM will come in and smack your planet around and generally massive amounts of people die).
Then there's also some Space Marine worlds which aren't bad at all to live on (although there's also terrible ones). Really it just comes down to a dice roll on how decent or terrible your life as a civilian in W40K is.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/01/13 00:36:05
“There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.”
Does it have to be organised? Or could i for example just slit dog throats in my basement with a bunch of people and offer their dying carcases to the emperor?
Well the Imperium still employs death cult assassins, and their rituals are borderline Khornate. I'd say that blood sacrifices to the Emperor are tolerated, but closely monitored.
Hmmm thats interesting. Makes things a whole lot easier. Reminds me of alexander the great and how he let people do whatever they pleased religiously.
It also makes you wonder what kind of leniancy they offer guard regiments who have special needs for their beleifs and how that effects deployement and so on.
The Sabbat Worlds Anthology had a story where the jerk Guardsmen from Ghostmaker and Necropolis had to work alongside Guardsmen who were little more than a jungle tribe with bone trophies and rifles. The puffed up Blueblood regiment hated fighting alongside "savages".
Swastakowey wrote: Does it have to be organised? Or could i for example just slit dog throats in my basement with a bunch of people and offer their dying carcases to the emperor?
How far does the worship tolleration go?
Ah, actually, just read the Ecclesiarchy's bit in the 6E rulebook, and it notes that they do try to reign in more barbaric practices over time. So sacrificial rituals and such would probably be steadily phased out.
As for whether it's organised, I would think so. Or at least monitored. The Ecclesiarchy must be vigilant for heresy, after all, so isolated worship like that would likely be discouraged, certainly once the Ecclesiarchy had gained enough influence in the local population.
Order of the Righteous Armour - 542 points so far.
There is one fluff story where the Black Templars destroy a planet that worshipped the Emperor because their barbaric rituals were so brutal that they resembled Chaos worship (or was it a separate chapter? I could be mixing this up with a possibly separate incident regarding worshipping genetic superiority, though IIRC the two are one and the same incidents). And Chaos has masqueraded as the Emperor on various worlds in several other fluff cases, too. So it's generally in the Ecclesiarchy's best interests to do what they can to weed out particularly evil or chaotic practices over time.
(the Emperor masquerading is not necessarily one-sided, though. The Ecclesiarchy will take new worlds with alternate religions and gradually convert that religion into a variant of the Imperial cult, too. I believe this was stated to include Chaos religions that weren't too far gone as well, but my memory could be wrong. As evil as the Ecclesiarchy can seem sometimes, they really are fighting their own version of a war against the "generally even more evil" Chaos as well)
Likely this is what they're trying to do with the Kanak skulltakers, I imagine (it's never really been explicitly stated, but I imagine that was a planet going the way of Khorne before the Ecclesiarchy got to it. Hell, it's even in their name, considering that Kanak is very similar to other alternate names canonically used for Khorne). Although in this case they're using service in the guard in an attempt to introduce more civilized culture to the planet.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/01/13 16:41:19
I remember reading something about a world's inhabitants being punished because their systems involved worshiping the Emperor as an animal totem. So there must be some limits on how far from official they can go. Plus the reasons stated above.
The vast bulk of worlds in the Imperium are classified "Imperial Worlds" which make them, based on their depictions in various novels, basically the same as any 21st century world with a few technological upgrades. While spaceships exist, you probably won't ever see on, and if you do see one, unless you are one of the 0.001% who work in a job that will take you into space, you won't ever get on it.
You'll have a job (probably) that (assuming Earth-like norms for the planet) you'll work at 10-12 hours a day, six days a week. You'll go to church at least once a week (probably two or three times). Depending on what, specifically, you do (and where) determines how much of your local money you make (the Imperium is, largely speaking, a capitalist society) and what you can purchase. On many planets, weapon ownership is a requirement to supplement PDF forces in case of xeno invasion.
You won't go hungry, but you won't exactly be living in the land of plenty. There'll be things to buy, but in most cases you won't have time to use them or the need. Things like entertainment electronics are questionably present in the Imperium (so there may not be things like an Xbox or Playstation), and the idea of a personal computer is right out for the vast majority of people.
Also, because the Imperium is very British, age of majority appears to be 16. This is based largely on Abnett's Eisenhorn and Ravenor series, though several IG stories of various authors supports it as well (not surprisingly, all of these authors are English).
It is best to be a pessimist. You are usually right and, when you're wrong, you're pleasantly surprised.
Psienesis wrote: The vast bulk of worlds in the Imperium are classified "Imperial Worlds" which make them, based on their depictions in various novels, basically the same as any 21st century world with a few technological upgrades. While spaceships exist, you probably won't ever see on, and if you do see one, unless you are one of the 0.001% who work in a job that will take you into space, you won't ever get on it.
You'll have a job (probably) that (assuming Earth-like norms for the planet) you'll work at 10-12 hours a day, six days a week. You'll go to church at least once a week (probably two or three times). Depending on what, specifically, you do (and where) determines how much of your local money you make (the Imperium is, largely speaking, a capitalist society) and what you can purchase. On many planets, weapon ownership is a requirement to supplement PDF forces in case of xeno invasion.
You won't go hungry, but you won't exactly be living in the land of plenty. There'll be things to buy, but in most cases you won't have time to use them or the need. Things like entertainment electronics are questionably present in the Imperium (so there may not be things like an Xbox or Playstation), and the idea of a personal computer is right out for the vast majority of people.
Also, because the Imperium is very British, age of majority appears to be 16. This is based largely on Abnett's Eisenhorn and Ravenor series, though several IG stories of various authors supports it as well (not surprisingly, all of these authors are English).
While such planets undoubtely exist, I like to think that Imperial Worlds are much more varied. Imperial World (or Civilised World) is a classification given to a planet based on it's level of technology and self-sufficiency. Their societies, cultures and political structures can vary widely.
That is what I got from the fluff at least.
Sure, but you have, as an example, American Culture, British Culture, Japanese Culture, French Culture, Italian Culture and Russian Culture....
All of these are distinct cultures on Earth, having generally the same technological level, and some near-universal aspects of daily life for the common person (everyone needs a job, all of these cultures have religious services, etc.).
.... these can all be depicted as individual Imperial Worlds in 40K.
It is best to be a pessimist. You are usually right and, when you're wrong, you're pleasantly surprised.
TiamatRoar wrote: There is one fluff story where the Black Templars destroy a planet that worshipped the Emperor because their barbaric rituals were so brutal that they resembled Chaos worship (or was it a separate chapter? I could be mixing this up with a possibly separate incident regarding worshipping genetic superiority, though IIRC the two are one and the same incidents). And Chaos has masqueraded as the Emperor on various worlds in several other fluff cases, too. So it's generally in the Ecclesiarchy's best interests to do what they can to weed out particularly evil or chaotic practices over time.
(the Emperor masquerading is not necessarily one-sided, though. The Ecclesiarchy will take new worlds with alternate religions and gradually convert that religion into a variant of the Imperial cult, too. I believe this was stated to include Chaos religions that weren't too far gone as well, but my memory could be wrong. As evil as the Ecclesiarchy can seem sometimes, they really are fighting their own version of a war against the "generally even more evil" Chaos as well)
Likely this is what they're trying to do with the Kanak skulltakers, I imagine (it's never really been explicitly stated, but I imagine that was a planet going the way of Khorne before the Ecclesiarchy got to it. Hell, it's even in their name, considering that Kanak is very similar to other alternate names canonically used for Khorne). Although in this case they're using service in the guard in an attempt to introduce more civilized culture to the planet.
Second Purging of Lastrati (you'd have thought they'd have learnt the first time ): BT roll up to worship at what they think is a planet of hyper-pious loyalists, but get there and find that their blood sacfrifices aren't for the Emperor, but genetic perfection. Sounds like Slaanesh to me. Anyways they killed them all and carried on crusading.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/18 10:13:27
And that page frankly sucks and clashes a lot with the Black Library.
Care to elaborate?
"I disagree with some details" is not the same thing as "frankly sucks".
And if anything I'd say my take is a bit soft since honestly the very first words of every edition of 40k has promised life in the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable.
And that page frankly sucks and clashes a lot with the Black Library.
Care to elaborate?
"I disagree with some details" is not the same thing as "frankly sucks".
And if anything I'd say my take is a bit soft since honestly the very first words of every edition of 40k has promised life in the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable.
Yet numerous Black Library novels have shown us otherwise. It just sucks to be anything below a merchantman in a Hive World. Agri Worlds are downright pleasant (albeit incredibly simple). Feral Worlds vary and Death Worlds are obviously miserable places. But that civilian page doesn't stretch at all and only applies to the worse Hive Worlds.
“There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.”
He Who Controls The Dice Controls The Universe 
Order of the Righteous Armour - 542 points so far. 
This is what I was looking for.
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