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Hi guys, I've got my last training game at GW tonight, playing 1,500pts of Beastmen, I know he'll have a Ghorgon and a couple of horde units of Ungors and a unit of Bestigors.

This is the list I'm thinking of, only got the Demigrphys and Pistoliers for Christmas so want to try them out.

Hope it's ok?

Lords
Arch Lector
Additional Hand Weapon, Light Armour
Magic Items
Armour of Meteoric Iron, Dawnstone

Heroes
Battle Wizard
Lore of Life, Wizard Level 2
Magic Items
Dispel Scroll

Captain of the Empire
Battle Standard Bearer, Full Plate Armour, Shield
Magic Items
Enchanted Shield, Fencer's Blades

Master Engineer

Core
Halberdiers (Arch Lector, BSB in here)
Champion, 38x Halberdiers, Musician, Standard Bearer

Archers (Wizard in here)
6x Archers

Knightly Orders Inner Circle
Champion, 5x Knightly Orders Inner Circle, Lance and Shield, Musician, Standard Bearer

Special

Demigryph Knights
Champion, 3x Inner Circle Knight, Lance, Musician, Standard Bearer

Great Cannon

Pistoliers
Musician, 5x Pistoliers

Rare
Helblaster Volley Gun

Total Points - 1499

Dude, your list is not even legal...On a quick glance, I see you have 6 archers, you need at least 10 to form a unit.

Should have said the 6 are a detachment for the Halberdiers.

Or can I not place the Wizard in there as it's a detachment?

Calm down Keyser, don't need to be rude about it. Yes your character can go in the detachment. The list looks pretty solid! Might not need full command in the unit of 5 knights though, assuming they are flankers/chaff

Drop the banners from the knights and grifs because if they fall back you auto lose those models which sucks.

Also you don't need light armour on the arch lector because hes got a 1+ save which can't be improved, also for your characters I would take weapons that give them better strength like great weapons or ogre blade for some better hitting.

Also lore of life is nice, but maybe take 2 lvl 1s if you can for the extra channel dice and then take life and beasts for wild form and shield of thorns.

Well, a couple of things...

With your Arch Lector, I'd drop the Dawnstone and instead give him the Crown of Command and the Luckstone. This will keep your main block in the fight and in the off chance that your Lector needs to re-roll his armor save, you have the luckstone. GW on this guy would be better as well.

As far as the Wizard goes, I always either take a Lv.1 with Beasts or a Lv. 4 with a Lv. 2 both taking the same lore so I can be guaranteed the spells I want. In this point total, I'd probably just take the Lv. 1 with Beasts (Wyssans) to give your troops that much needed boost. Definitely take the Dispel Scroll. He can (and should) fit into your archer detachment.

The Captain BSB is a good choice to help bolster an already hard unit to crack. I might take another look at the Fencer's Blades though.

Master Engineer - not a bad WM babysitter.

Your Halberdiers are great. Keep them as is.

Archers great.

Drop the ICKnights. There are simply too few of them to do you any good. They are best taken in units of 10-12 strong. Less than that and it is too easy for them to lose combat through combat res. Also ask yourself what they are going to do for you in the game. The only time you take 5 knights are to be chaff clearers and war machine hunters and you already have that covered with Pistoliers. And if you do, definitely drop the command (Empire Generals usually only take them naked - with no command and not inner circle). Drop them and pick up another detachment to take the charge of his main blocks instead of your Halberdiers. Spearmen actually work well for this.

Demigryph Knights are awesome. You'll have fun. But I would do as has already been mentioned and drop the command. I only take full command on units of 4+. It is too easy for someone to get easy points if you happen to break from combat. Make sure you are charging in from a flank and don't allow yourself to be lured out of the battle.

Great Cannon - a must. I'd strongly consider taking two if he is taking a Ghorgon.

Pistoliers will be good for redirecting, chaff clearing, and war machine hunting. Apart from that, not much. Try to think about what he will be bringing and consider if you need them.

HBVG - a must when facing hordes of Beastmen. It does require the ME to babysit though.

In total, it should make for a great game! Have lots of fun and good luck!

I strongly disagree about dropping the standards from the Demis and Knights. That +1 is invaluable when fighting monsters for example, as it allows you to win on static res alone. 5 Knights with a banner can easily run down a Frost Phoenix; 5 without will not. If you want to shave some points, drop champions first, especially in units unlikely to contain a character. If a unit of formerly 3 DG flees, it's toast anyways, so who cares about losing a standard. A DG champion can be nice as he actually has a chance to defeat a character once in a while but he's not necessary.

The Captain cannot use a shield, an enchanted shield and Fencer's Blades. I've found the Sword of Swift Slaying or a humble Sword of Might to offer some utility. However, Empire characters are primarily supporters, not fighters.

Tying into that, I also disagree on the Dawn- and Luckstone advice. You want your characters to survive in order to support, so the best save available is just good enough. Against anyone who knows what Lectors do, there's no "off chance to re-roll". They'll target him with everything they've got. One usually knows whether 40 Halberdiers can win a fight or not, so you can reform accordingly (and you might have HtL and BSB re-roll on top). That doesn't mean the Crown is a bad item, far from it, but Empire is one of the factions that can do without.

Just try the Demigryphs both ways. I think you'll see that when it comes to combat res, the Demi's aren't relying on that +1 very often. If they are, then you've got a bad match-up. The problem comes from them failing a panic after losing one model, which then becomes two. If you only have one model left in the unit, you will simply move to saving your points for the unit and keeping him out of danger, whereas with two models, they can still get in there and be a threat. The shear amount of damage the Demi (not the rider) can put out is awesome. If the knight manages to do anything at all is simply icing on the cake. So, no, I would not risk losing an entire Demi for just +1 combat res.

The Luckstone is only 5 pts and can easily fit into most builds. Give your ArchLector a great armor save and when your opponent eventually manages to wound you and get through your armor save, use that to re-roll it. I have watched my opponents get so excited so many times just to watch it go away with his re-roll. Priceless!

40 Halberdiers WILL be the backbone of your army and you want to make sure that they DO NOT break.

Honestly when playing 1000+ points of empire I use a block of 50 halberd and 50 swordsmen and 2 cannons as my actual army core so just saying while 40 halberds are nice unless you have a real beatstick commander in there and some good magic you will find it falling apart, so thats why I think the dawn stone is better, though for 5pts the bsb could take the luck stone.

Is putting a mage into such a small unit a wise idea? My instinct would be to aim a volley of bowfire into that detactment and delete that mage, seeing as Look Out Sir! would be prompty removed. A bunker should ideally be out of immediate harm's way and of a size enough to resist at least a cursory attempt to take it out, surely?

Is putting a mage into such a small unit a wise idea? My instinct would be to aim a volley of bowfire into that detactment and delete that mage, seeing as Look Out Sir! would be prompty removed. A bunker should ideally be out of immediate harm's way and of a size enough to resist at least a cursory attempt to take it out, surely?



or perhaps a unit of handgunners?

Crossbows are cool with their 30" range and strength 4.

One really good way of protecting your wizard is by taking two detachments of archers and placing one right behind the other. The wizard goes into the second unit and the first acts as a screen for the wizard so that he is a little better protected from fire. I do this anytime my opponent brings snipers or the lore of death. The detachments can also go behind the parent unit. They don't have to be screens, though that is how most will use them. It really comes down to how you will be using you wizard.

You can always keep your wizard behind your big blocks of infantry its a -1 to hit and thats IF they can see him, and you still get a 4+ LOS.

At larger games 2k+ I take a lvl 4 death wizard on Pegasus with talisman of 4+ ward and dragon bane gem. It is pretty good protection from the normal cannons and don't forget you can still hide him behind terrain.