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Ok, so I've played with my Ravenwing list a few times, and it seems to work ok. But I am thinking about trying some white scar allies to see how they work. To add these guys in, I have had to drop: 2 x 5 black knights, 2 land speeder typhoons and a dark shroud. Look at the allies and see if you think it works? All advice welcome! I'm still short 25 points and would love suggestions!

2000 Pts - Codex: Dark Angels Roster

Total Roster Cost: 1997

HQ: Sammael on Corvex (1#, 200 pts, Warlord)
1 Sammael on Corvex

: Ravenwing Command Squad (5#, 230 pts)
4 Ravenwing Command Squad
1 Ravenwing Apothecary

HQ: Librarian (1#, 150 pts)
1 Librarian + Increase Mastery Level x1 + Power Field Generator + Space Marine Bike

: Ravenwing Command Squad (5#, 230 pts)
4 Ravenwing Command Squad
1 Ravenwing Apothecary

Troops: Ravenwing Attack Squadron (7#, 236 pts)
1 Ravenwing Attack Squadron
5 Ravenwing Biker + Meltagun x2 + Ravenwing Sergeant
1 Ravenwing Attack Bike + Multi-melta

Troops: Ravenwing Attack Squadron (7#, 236 pts)
1 Ravenwing Attack Squadron
5 Ravenwing Biker + Meltagun x2 + Ravenwing Sergeant
1 Ravenwing Attack Bike + Multi-melta

Fast Attack: Ravenwing Black Knights (5#, 210 Pts)
4 Ravenwing Black Knights + Ravenwing Grenade Launcher
1 Ravenwing Hunts Master

White Scars Allies

HQ: Captain (1#, 145 pts)
1 Captain + Artificer Armour + Grav-pistol x1 + Space Marine Bike

: Command Squad (5#, 210 pts)
4 Command Squad + Equip with Space Marine Bikes + Grav-gun x4
1 Apothecary

Troops (5#, 150 pts)
4 Bike Squad + Grav-gun x2
1 Biker Sergeant + Grav-pistol

Its quite all round, what do you think?

Edited to must updated Version!

Overall, I think this looks pretty decent and like a fun army to run. I'm concerned that you removed the darkshroud though. If it were me, I'd probably drop one of the attack bikes to keep one darkshroud.

Other than that... add meltabombs onto your sgts with extra points, especially with the ravenwing squads. Shoot at a vehicle and then get an extra assault move to get a little distance/cover, plus have a decent shot to make the kill if you make it to BTB.

The black knights are a hard loss, but you still have some cheaper/better ones in the command squads and the white scars should make up some of that difference.

I am concerned about the loss of the knights. I could drop a white scar bike squad and squeeze 5 black knights in. I lose 2 grav guns but gain 5 plasma talons!


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What I can do, is drop a squad of white scar bikers and drop the grav guns from the other squad of normal bikers and that will buy me 5 black knights...


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or is it worth dropping the dev standard and keeping the grav guns in?

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
I am concerned about the loss of the knights. I could drop a white scar bike squad and squeeze 5 black knights in. I lose 2 grav guns but gain 5 plasma talons!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
What I can do, is drop a squad of white scar bikers and drop the grav guns from the other squad of normal bikers and that will buy me 5 black knights...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
or is it worth dropping the dev standard and keeping the grav guns in?

I would drop the dev standard as it only works on normal bike bolters making you bunch up(not so much but more then i would like to) and the dev banner will not do anything for your white scars allies.

BUT at 2k to only have 3 scoring units would worry me. It doesnt feel enough even with them being bikes. Combat squading the ravenwing is not the answer!. 3 bikes alone will not last on any objective

I am not sure I see the point in bringing the command squad on the White Scars allies. Seems like an awful lot of points to give to just 5 bikers an extra melee attack and feel no pain.

You could dump those guys or just make them a regular troops squad, and then put the Banner of Fortitude on Sammael's Ravenwing Squad. Then you've got a mobile FNP banner that your Eternal Warrior HQ unit benefits from that can affect all of your primary detachment units, which likely want to pike up together to all benefit from your other Banner of Devastation anyway.

Obviously deploy your guys according to what you're facing, but if they don't have any noticable deadly template or large blast weapons, just a giant thick blob of Salvo 4, relentless FNP bikers is pretty silly.

SRSFACE wrote:
I am not sure I see the point in bringing the command squad on the White Scars allies. Seems like an awful lot of points to give to just 5 bikers an extra melee attack and feel no pain.

You could dump those guys or just make them a regular troops squad, and then put the Banner of Fortitude on Sammael's Ravenwing Squad. Then you've got a mobile FNP banner that your Eternal Warrior HQ unit benefits from that can affect all of your primary detachment units, which likely want to pike up together to all benefit from your other Banner of Devastation anyway.

Obviously deploy your guys according to what you're facing, but if they don't have any noticable deadly template or large blast weapons, just a giant thick blob of Salvo 4, relentless FNP bikers is pretty silly.

You can only take one sacred standard, so one or the other......

Is there a stipulation you can only bring one? I know you can only bring one per squad. I only have my Eldar book on me at the moment.

The scar command squad is to go with the dark angels Libby! He can get prescience and then I have 4 grav guns firing 3 shots each at 18" that are now twin linked and the squad has FNP.

Unfortunately you can only take one sacred standard per army! But I'm thinking about taking none.

Here's my idea - drop a squad of bikers from the scars & drop the dev standard - replace with a squad of black knights with a ravenwing grenade launcher.

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
Unfortunately you can only take one sacred standard per army! But I'm thinking about taking none. Thats a GREAT idea.

Here's my idea - drop a squad of bikers from the scars & drop the dev standard - replace with a squad of black knights with a ravenwing grenade launcher. consider saving the scars and dropping a command squad for a big unit of black knights

Gonna try to reply again... sorry if somehow there's multiple posts.

I misread that command squad and it didn't dawn on me you could give all of them grav guns. Makes sense now! That'll probably give someone a bad day. I had assumed (because it's what I usually see people do) you were rolling the librarian with the command squad with the Banner of Devastation, in order to give it more survivability as it's priority number 1 against most people you'd play against.

It's worth exploring the idea of dropping one of the Ravenwing Command Squads and simply making it a black knight squad. I get they are technically 2 points more a guy when taking them this way, but because of how wonky adding units is to a regular Ravenwing Attack Squad you should still be okay. This way you could roll with 6/9 guys and take more grenade launchers. I know my grenade launcher guy seems to die quickly every time and I'm quite sad I'm left without the redundancy but maybe that's just me.

 namiel wrote:

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
Unfortunately you can only take one sacred standard per army! But I'm thinking about taking none.

Thats a GREAT idea.

Seriously? Why do you think so?

I'm think 65 points is a lot for a banner, especially one that encourages you to bunch right up in an army designed to be mobile - don't get me wrong, I love the banner! I think it's an awesome buy, but my list is a little melta/plasma/grav heavy for it?!


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SRSFACE wrote:
Gonna try to reply again... sorry if somehow there's multiple posts.

I misread that command squad and it didn't dawn on me you could give all of them grav guns. Makes sense now! That'll probably give someone a bad day. I had assumed (because it's what I usually see people do) you were rolling the librarian with the command squad with the Banner of Devastation, in order to give it more survivability as it's priority number 1 against most people you'd play against.

It's worth exploring the idea of dropping one of the Ravenwing Command Squads and simply making it a black knight squad. I get they are technically 2 points more a guy when taking them this way, but because of how wonky adding units is to a regular Ravenwing Attack Squad you should still be okay. This way you could roll with 6/9 guys and take more grenade launchers. I know my grenade launcher guy seems to die quickly every time and I'm quite sad I'm left without the redundancy but maybe that's just me.

I'm prob going to drop the dev banner, and the command squad is not only 2 points per bike cheaper (pays for a melta somewhere) but they also gain an apothecary for some FNP goodness!


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I've updated the list!

Its a great idea becuase the banner is very expensive and decreases your mobility.

I would make your black knights number at least 6 so that you can take 2 launchers and double your punishment. The apothocary is nice but when it means taking more knights i would take more knights.

I would re add the white scars squad and drop a ravenwing command squad with the banner to add your knights

Sammael 200
• 5 Ravenwing Command Squad: Apothecary; Grenade Launcher; Ravenwing Company Banner. 245
Librarian: Space Marine Bike (1,2); Auspex; Mastery Level 2. 125
• 5 Ravenwing Command Squad: Grenade Launcher; Standard of Fortitude. 285

Troop Ravenwing Attack Squadron: 3× Additional Biker; 2× Meltagun. 181
Troop Ravenwing Attack Squadron: 3× Additional Biker; 2× Meltagun. 181

Chapter Master: The Shield Eternal; Space Marine bike; artificer armour; thunder hammer. 250

6 Space Marine Bikers: 2× grav-gun. 156

Stormtalon Gunship: Skyhammer missile launcher. 125

Thunderfire Cannon 100

1,848 points

Here's my 1850 RW/WS list. TFC is golden, but there is merit to pure bikes. Same with the Stormtalon. But by spreading out HQs I can get scout and nice cover saves everywhere, while still taking full advantage of banners (which you absolutely SHOULD be taking advantage of).

Once you drop the dev banner and only have 2 units of black knights, it might be worth taking Whitescars as your main army with DA as allies.

Whitescar bikes are better than the base Ravevenwing ones, and Grav guns are insanely good against a lot of things in the meta at the moment. One thing to note: Don't take grav pistols, take a combi grav instead, its cheaper and will in all likelyhood shoot more shots a game than the pistol.

DA ally contingent would look something like this:

HQ
Librarian - Bike & PFG

RCS - 5 bikes, RGL, apothecay ravenwing standard (very useful item for 15 points, doesn't effect whitescars unfortunately).

Troops
Scouts - Sniper rifles

Fast Attack
Black knights - 5/6 bikes, RGL

Having to take one infantry unit is annoying, but not the end of the world.

Personally doing this would give you a much stronger list than the other way round. You also have access to storm talons for anti air then too.

 namiel wrote:
Its a great idea becuase the banner is very expensive and decreases your mobility.

Explain.

 Big Blind Bill wrote:
Once you drop the dev banner and only have 2 units of black knights, it might be worth taking Whitescars as your main army with DA as allies.

Whitescar bikes are better than the base Ravevenwing ones, and Grav guns are insanely good against a lot of things in the meta at the moment. One thing to note: Don't take grav pistols, take a combi grav instead, its cheaper and will in all likelyhood shoot more shots a game than the pistol.

DA ally contingent would look something like this:

HQ
Librarian - Bike & PFG

RCS - 5 bikes, RGL, apothecay ravenwing standard (very useful item for 15 points, doesn't effect whitescars unfortunately).

Troops
Scouts - Sniper rifles

Fast Attack
Black knights - 5/6 bikes, RGL

Having to take one infantry unit is annoying, but not the end of the world.

Personally doing this would give you a much stronger list than the other way round. You also have access to storm talons for anti air then too.

Yeah, I get that white scars are arguably more powerful, but I'm trying to make it pure bike and still semi competitive. I'd live to keep the dev banner in, but it does seem to have a huge effect on how I play, and not always a positive one. I find myself building big blobs of bikes to keep near the banner, not really worth it at all!

In the new updated list I still have 15 black knights, plus my 12 ravenwing bikers and 2 attack bikes. I also have the scars command squad of doom and and the normal scars biker unit.

The dev banner isn't always the best way to go. 15 points for auto H&R is fantastic.