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First question, could a list like....

1,490 / 10 left


HQ - 270

Wraithlord 120

30 - Wraithstone

50 - Missiles & Lance


Spiritseer 70


T - 800

Wraithguard x10 320

Wraithguard x5 160

Wraithblade x10 320

Axe & Shield


HS - 420

Wraithlord 120

5 - Sword & 2 Flamers


Wraithlord 120

50 - Missiles & Lance


Wraithlord 120

5 - Sword & 2 Flamers



...work at all for 1,500 games? I dont want to go for all out wins but I dont want to lose for no reason other than my habit for picking things that look cool but turn out subpar either. Its sort of a syndrome in every game I ever join. Anyway I plan to play friends and occasionally at a few game stores. I understand I have mobility and range problems as well as too few boots on the ground in case of bad rolls and I take early Wraith troop losses. I understand tactics (I think) and have looked up how to kit my units as best possible. I love the Wraith would want to stay Wraith or Spiritseer units only. Is this a pipe dream? Also am I understanding the Ianyden rules or did I add too many Wraithlords? Im pretty sure I got it right, but, checking.

Oh and no Forgeworld stuff. I dont want to go somewhere and be told my special snowflake isnt legal. Even if the Wraithseer would greatly help this list Im sure.



My 2nd reason for wanting to play Eldar is the Avatar of Khaine. So far I have a possible idea of...


1,200 / 300 left

HQ - 400

Avatar of Khaine 195

Eldrad 205


T - 360

Guardians x10 90

Guardians x10 90

Guardians x10 90

Guardians x10 90



HS - 440

War Walker x3 180

War Walker x3 180

War Walker x3 180


Any hope for an Avatar themed build either? Its rather generic I know. I left point wiggle for weapon platforms on guardians (which is why so many squads), gun upgrades for the walkers, and Avatar abilities depending on what I would be fighting. Which, why so many Walkers and no Fire Prism you ask?

I sort of dislike the look of Eldar tanks (I know, I know) and really enjoy the space elf AT-PT (Star Wars ref) mech squad idea so figured I would throw my desire for Walkers in together with the Avatar to keep my Wraith theme totally separate. Eldrad got thrown in because I hear he is pretty tough and from my limited rules understanding it does seem pretty great for an HQ choice. But I dont care about him theme wise if there is a better choice. Would I be better off allying with something to take advantage of the Avatar instead of using living Eldar?


Hopeless? I hope not. I even considered merging the Avatar into a Wraith list so I could have my chocolate and peanut-butter mashed together as it were, but it seemed to waste the Avatars potential to me.


Thanks!

Are you playing the I tandem supplement? Not sure about the rules for that I just use the normal book so not sure how you got the wraith lord as hq.

First list is what I will talk about lol spirit seer for hq is a good choice if you want wraith guard as troops.
Make 1 unit of 5 with d scythes in a wave serpent, another unit of 5 in a wave serpent, and the wraith blades in a wave serpent. That will give you more movement so you won't get shot right away wraithblades especially. It will also give you more fire power serpents are really good, equips them the way you like preferably with a bright lance IMO.

For the wraith lords if wouldn't take flamers and swords it kind of defeats the purpose of using them as heavy weapon platforms. Put star cannons, bright lances etc etc.

Seconds list I haven't used avatar at all but again you are going to need some wave serpents or else your guardians will die quite quickly. Lots of people love war walkers, they are good platforms for various weapons but I wouldn't take them with just the stock weapons.

Also don't put point values for each upgrades on here you say you don't like the Eldar tanks but it is essential to have wave serpents by that I don't mean spam them but 1 or 2 at least for the first list.
Hope that helps at least a bit

EDIT: If you want to you can still play without wave serpents just not as good. Also if you want to play that wraith list you might want to consider the Ghost Warriors pack from GW that has 20ish wraithguard, 3 wraithlords and 1 wraithknight then all you need is 1 spiritseer.

 chiefbigredman wrote:
Are you playing the I tandem supplement? Not sure about the rules for that I just use the normal book so not sure how you got the wraith lord as hq.

First list is what I will talk about lol spirit seer for hq is a good choice if you want wraith guard as troops.
Make 1 unit of 5 with d scythes in a wave serpent, another unit of 5 in a wave serpent, and the wraith blades in a wave serpent. That will give you more movement so you won't get shot right away wraithblades especially. It will also give you more fire power serpents are really good, equips them the way you like preferably with a bright lance IMO.

For the wraith lords if wouldn't take flamers and swords it kind of defeats the purpose of using them as heavy weapon platforms. Put star cannons, bright lances etc etc.

Seconds list I haven't used avatar at all but again you are going to need some wave serpents or else your guardians will die quite quickly. Lots of people love war walkers, they are good platforms for various weapons but I wouldn't take them with just the stock weapons.

Also don't put point values for each upgrades on here you say you don't like the Eldar tanks but it is essential to have wave serpents by that I don't mean spam them but 1 or 2 at least for the first list.
Hope that helps at least a bit

EDIT: If you want to you can still play without wave serpents just not as good. Also if you want to play that wraith list you might want to consider the Ghost Warriors pack from GW that has 20ish wraithguard, 3 wraithlords and 1 wraithknight then all you need is 1 spiritseer.

This except remove all emls from your list, to expensive. just go for another lance.

Ok, in the Eldr supplement it says "May select one wraithlord or wraithknight to be your warlord" so not an HQ hes still a HS but he gains the warlord trait which is awesome like the FnP 6+ 12" bubble coming from a 6" base! Also keep your weapons the same either double SL or double BL I would make all your wraithlord double SL to fight any AA that comes your way also if you can sap the wraithblades for more wraithguard because CC is a bad even for wraithblades with A1 you will be stuck there forever.


For second list I would buff out your guardian squads to 20 men and add a warlock for conceal so your guardians don't get wiped by bolters, also take drop eldrad for a normal farseer because eldrad makes the squad non fleet if hes in it due to HIM not being fleet, as well as he lost the ability to use the same power twice, but if you keep his that's ok hes not unplayable.

For guardian weapons I would go 2 SL for all the 20 man blobs and double lances for the walkers. for the WLs go double SL for hoards and AA.

If you want to go wraith heavy, you can make a good foot or mech list, it really all depends on what you want. The iyanden supplement allows you to use a lord or knight as your warlord, but they do not take up an HQ slot, so 3 lords max. Not really a huge issue. If you don't want serpents you can easily live without. 10 wraithguard and 10 blades make a good core. Consider a small unit of jetbikes for scoring without breaking the bank on wraiths.

Wraithlords are good, but if your going the whole hog, get 2 and a knight. Dual flamers, swords when you can afford. You always want 2 guns on the lords, usually the same one. Good loadouts are dual lance, dual scatter, scatter/star, scatter/shuri. Missiles are overpriced for what you get, but otherwise what you take should reflect your need for AT or dakka, respectively. Knights go great stock but the suncannon/scatter is your next best build.

The avatar is actually really good in a wraith list. If you have the avatar, you can field 4 MC's and a bunch of T6 fearless troops in power armor. Wraiths are tough, but are mediocore in combat(even blades), while the avatar is a fiery beatstick of death. The fearless bubble is nice, but the Avatar has more potential in combat. ALWAYS take fast shot on the avatar; double tapping Bs10 melta fingers with battle focus is 3 or 4 kinds of stupid. Crushing blow and monster hunter are okay, but usually not needed. Disarming strike is expensive, but it means you will beat anything short of a bloodthirster or Failbaddon in combat.

Guardian horde is an OK idea, and with 9 walkers it could be done. Eldrad is good, but unless you need his particular abilities(redeploy, stealth, 4 powers and lots of charges) then a normal farseer is best.

Spiritseers are outirght amazing, and since Iyanden allows you to take multiple seers in a single HQ slot, strongly consider 2-3 for an all wraith list. The stone is very good to babysit a lord/knight(particulalry a wraithknight warlord). The psychic support makes the unit near untouchable, and spirit marks will give you the edge in shooting/assault.

Thankyou serling for bringing up spirit marking I forgot all about it (I rarely play wraiths other then knight) its a cool idea to be able to re roll 1s to hit, also FC, fleet and battle focus from the primaris power is cool but takes all charges.

 Arbiter wrote:
Thankyou serling for bringing up spirit marking I forgot all about it (I rarely play wraiths other then knight) its a cool idea to be able to re roll 1s to hit, also FC, fleet and battle focus from the primaris power is cool but takes all charges.

Spirit mark negates the weakness of mediocore weapon skill and low attakcs that gets wraiths stuck in combat. They shrug damage, hit hard, but only if they hit. To get around voice of twilight sucking your warp charge, take the spirit stone of analathan on your spiritseer. Voice+psychic shriek in a unit of scytheguard is dead lethal.

Wow thanks for the tip about the ghost pack! That makes me mighty tempted. However that leads me to the Wraithknight.

I read that for the price Wraithknights were fairly bad, and was afraid by taking one I was sinking too many points into too few attacks. Wraithknight is why Eldar appealed to me first, but like I said losing doesnt sound fun. Especially losing with a unit that costs so much actual money. I figured if I wanted good huge Mecha I would just use Tau Allies for the their giant robots, which, made me sad. I admit.



So take double flamers + sword & two of the same gun on a Wraithlord to max their potential? I assumed (derp) giving them fixed roles in melee or ranged was best. Do one thing really well is what I hear 40k is about, so I over did it a bit I guess.

What about missiles on Warwalkers? Or are missile weapons only worth taking on Dark Reapers? They sounded good to me, but, obviously not haha.

Also are D-Scythe almost always better than the Wraithcannon for Guard? Or just with such particular heavy Lord backup?


Will use all your guys input and throw together a new list after I work something up. So much to change ha. Thanks so much!

Deadza wrote:
Wow thanks for the tip about the ghost pack! That makes me mighty tempted. However that leads me to the Wraithknight.

I read that for the price Wraithknights were fairly bad, and was afraid by taking one I was sinking too many points into too few attacks. Wraithknight is why Eldar appealed to me first, but like I said losing doesnt sound fun. Especially losing with a unit that costs so much actual money. I figured if I wanted good huge Mecha I would just use Tau Allies for the their giant robots, which, made me sad. I admit. Wraith knights are great, go for it.



So take double flamers + sword & two of the same gun on a Wraithlord to max their potential? I assumed (derp) giving them fixed roles in melee or ranged was best. Do one thing really well is what I hear 40k is about, so I over did it a bit I guess. It is always best to have the model designated for one role, which is why you give the wraithlord 2 of the same weapon. The sword is just a really cheap way to give him some more punch in combat.

What about missiles on Warwalkers? Or are missile weapons only worth taking on Dark Reapers? They sounded good to me, but, obviously not haha. Nope, missiles are to expensive by far to take on anything but dark reapers. Lances or scatters for walkers

Also are D-Scythe almost always better than the Wraithcannon for Guard? Or just with such particular heavy Lord backup? D scythes are great and wraithcannons are great. I woudnt view one over the other as they are 2 different roles. They both have there merits and are both good at what they do


Will use all your guys input and throw together a new list after I work something up. So much to change ha. Thanks so much!

Just a tip to remove those point values before a copyright lawyer (not the cute internet troll kind) gets on your case! I'll look at the list this was just the first thing that caught my eye.

Ok well here is an idea to use Iandyen craft world rules and stay all Wraith, really just for access to the Wraithstone to heal Wraithlords. Maybe I'm over estimating the usefulness of the healing though? Wave Serpents added will help the Wraithguard get somewhere to maybe actually accomplish something with their short range and provide more fire support, plus I guess they dont look too goofy after all. I gave the Knight the blast weapon option so I can possibly fight blobs of enemies and get some kind of Invulnerable save on it. Wish the Lords could.

I think my big weakness is so few troops. Feels lacking but I actually enjoy fewer/stronger units. So Im fine with that in theory if they play strong. My HQ is also sort of lacking and wont do much other than support the Wraith troops who have transports. Very vulnerable to be tied up and "tarpitted" by hordes too.




HQ - 170* someone is getting the Wraithstone, probably even making one of the Lords my Warlord to carry it.

Spiritseer

Spiritseer


T - 720
Wraithguard x5

Waveserpent
Linked Brightlance

Wraithblade x5
Axe & Shield

Waveserpent
Linked Brightlance

Wraithguard x5
(on foot)


HS - 610
Wraithlord -
Brightlance x2, Sword, Flamer x2

Wraithlord -
Brightlance x2, Sword, Flamer x2

Wraithknight -
Suncannon & Shield



So. Is this a massive failure of an army? Im starting to feel Knights and Lords are kinda weak for the cost without much Invulnerable saves. But perhaps Im just trying to talk myself out of that Ghost Warriors pack ha.

Only problem is that only models with the option to take special wargear like wraith forge stone can carry it so only the seers.

Also i like this list, if you could find a way to squeeze 50pts for those 5 WG in the serpent and give them d-scyths.

Also for the serpents SL would be better then BL because of AA and they TL the serpents shield which is really your only AA.

All in all a good list for wraiths, Btw I got the ghost warriors pack and its a great buy for $215

 Arbiter wrote:
Only problem is that only models with the option to take special wargear like wraith forge stone can carry it so only the seers.

Also i like this list, if you could find a way to squeeze 50pts for those 5 WG in the serpent and give them d-scyths.

Also for the serpents SL would be better then BL because of AA and they TL the serpents shield which is really your only AA.

All in all a good list for wraiths, Btw I got the ghost warriors pack and its a great buy for $215

Second all of this. You really need the scatter lasers for more dakka-wraith lists are very AT heavy(dual lance lords, wraithcannons....sheer strength of wraiths in assault) so horde armies can be a nightmare. With your knight being warlord, having the stone and a 5++ means it will take some serious hell to drop him. Protecting your warlord and the totally awesome Iyanden trait you get is well worth it. Lords and knights don't have invul saves stock, but so long as they touch area terrain or are 25% obscured they get a 5+ cover, which usually helps. Also, toughness 8 is absolutely stupid: T8 is immune to S4 and lower, and shrugs off most other fire with ease. Expensive, but well worth it.

All I can add is swapping the wraithguard and blades. The blades are OK on foot, particularly if your spiritseers are running along to cast voice of twiligiht and medic your heavies. The wraithguard are much easier pickings.

Thanks so much guys! I will mull it over and re-modify. I'm very happy to hear my 1st choice of army isn't a complete wash.