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Hi all, looking for some comment and critique on a monster-heavy (ground-based) list I'm thinking of building.

Hive Tyrant
2x twin-linked Devourers, Toxin Sacks
205

Hive Tyrant
2x twin-linked Devourers, Toxin Sacks
205

3x Venomthrope
135

Haruspex
Adrenal Glands
175

Haruspex
Adrenal Glands
175

Tervigon
195

30 Termagants
120

Tyrannofex
Acid Spray, Shreddershard Beetles
185

Tyrannofex
Acid Spray, Shreddershard Beetles
185

3x Carnifex
2x Scything Talons, Adrenal Glands, Spine Banks
420



Comes to 2000 points exactly. I imagine it as a largely refused flank style force, with an enormous amount of hitting power compressed into a small space. The Carnifex/Tyrannofex units can form a living fortress around the Venomthrope unit, screening them from incoming fire. I know it's slow, but it also looks incredibly resilient. Any thoughts?

Beautiful!

two things i would consider:

1) Exocrine's instead for tyranofexes
2) swap the Haruspex for crones, this would then allow you to split the venoms up into 3 units to help cover the army better.

just my 2 cents.

If that tervigon corks turn 1 you are screwed in any objective based game, you need more troops.

Tyrannofex just isnt worth it when the Exocrine exists, I converted mine. Haruspex is absolutely terrible, two crones and upgrades would probably serve you better.

Shingen wrote:
If that tervigon corks turn 1 you are screwed in any objective based game, you need more troops.

A concern, yes.

But i think a lot of that is mitigated by the shear volume of other viable targets and the fact that if that tervigon is deployed behind a wall of carnifex, that cover combined with shrouded from venomthropes for a great cover save to go with your 3+ armour.

My primary target would be the tervigon, after that it's just a mopping up exercise realistically.

Shingen wrote:
My primary target would be the tervigon, after that it's just a mopping up exercise realistically.

I understand the weakness of the list but i would hardly call killing 9 MC's a "mopping up" exercise.

I would

Shingen wrote:
I would

please explain to me how that list is suddenly easy to deal with because the tervigon has died?

Still has a Toughness 6 MC army with synpase coverage, 3+ armour all round pretty much and venomthropes for good cover saves against ap3 or better guns.

My DE have over 30 ap2 weapons, you would lose at least 2 a turn.

You need more small bodies as distraction units, you can't rely on mc's to do it all for you.

Shingen wrote:
My DE have over 30 ap2 weapons, you would lose at least 2 a turn.

You need more small bodies as distraction units, you can't rely on mc's to do it all for you.

first turn yes, then your paper skimmers are in range of str 6 twinlinked dakka or str 7 exocrines or tyranofexes.

how many are left realistically after his opening salvo?

He won't be in range till turn 2 so more than you think.

Regardless. Trust me it won't work. I tried something similar against marines a couple of months ago and grab guns ruin it.

In theory it's good, in practice it's awful. Sorry if I'm the only one bursting your bubble but someone has to.

Shingen wrote:
He won't be in range till turn 2 so more than you think.

Regardless. Trust me it won't work. I tried something similar against marines a couple of months ago and grab guns ruin it.

In theory it's good, in practice it's awful. Sorry if I'm the only one bursting your bubble but someone has to.

average board 48" end to end, he deploys 12" on, tyranofexes and/or exocrines move 6" with 24" rang guns.

Not in range? i doubt it.

no bubbles to burst so sorry if you got excited.

I agree with you that the amount of troops is a weak point of the list, but i don't agree its auto lose if you kill his tervigon.

 mixer86 wrote:

Shingen wrote:
My DE have over 30 ap2 weapons, you would lose at least 2 a turn.

You need more small bodies as distraction units, you can't rely on mc's to do it all for you.

first turn yes, then your paper skimmers are in range of str 6 twinlinked dakka or str 7 exocrines or tyranofexes.

how many are left realistically after his opening salvo?

Well he probably isnt telling you about the 50+ or so poison shots he still has.

While your shots pop a few vehicles, you are still playing catch up to now kill the troops in those transports. If they have Vect he eats a MC a turn in combat.

I think they are just telling you any smart player would just go for the tervigon. If/when it dies turn 1, the rest of the game you are no playing catch up to just get a tie.

Its a nice list, just needs little tweiking perhaps, or play it as it is and let us know how it works.

And yes DE is probably the odds on favorite for this list but other list.

Deamons
Tau
Wave Serpeant spam Eldar
Space marine force with grav guns
Dark angel dakka banner list
Flying crons.

im not saying these all win hands down, but each has the potential to win and severe chances of killing the tervigon turn 1.

Also in the list you built your threat range for shooting is 24" (6" move, 18" gun) Which all dark eldar paper ships will reduce by 6 inches, so your threat is actually 18 inches. ,Dark Eldar stay 19 inches away with its transport... He could kite you around the board like trash from a WoW dungeon, not all game of coarse but you are not in range on turn 1.. not even turn 2. I think you need at least 1 flyer to threaten them, but 2-3 would be better. (EXCEPT EXOCRINES WHO HAVE a 24 " threat, so he puts his 36 " Guns 25 inches away from you)

My DE List has 18 ap dark lance shots at 36", and 40 poison shots twinlinked at 24" (which are on transports that reduce your range by 6", so see: stay 19 inches away above), then another 24 36 inch range poison shots.
Again im not saying it wins out right, just giving you an idea of what you might run into. Think about a few flyers, and more troops for sure.

Also it might not hurt outflank that tervigon and hope it comes on the same edge you have started to push the Dark eldar away from.

EDIT. What dark eldar player with 36" guns and a 12" movement would ever deploy 12" of his table edge. Honestly...

Tsi knows the score.

 Iechine wrote:
Tyrannofex just isnt worth it when the Exocrine exists, I converted mine. Haruspex is absolutely terrible, two crones and upgrades would probably serve you better.

I was about to say the exact opposite actually.

Exocrine has some decent AP2 damage output yes, but the Tyranno has another wound and a 2+ for 15 points more.

In a world where 90% of damage is caused by S6-7 AP(4 or worse)

Tyranno is a king.

I played the exocrine...rolled up and punked two broadsides...unlikely to even do that mind you...and then he got his face handed to him with return fire.

The Tyranno is much more reliable.

But overall it's not really a is this better than that ideology...it's more like asking yourself if you need a triple lascannon predator or a Land Raider Crusader...

Thanks for the interesting feedback so far guys.

I was tempted by a couple of Exocrine over the Tyrannofex, but for the moment I'll stick with the Tyrannofex as I already have two of them (and the Exocrine's are expensive). Plus, as stated above, Tyrannofex are incredibly durable (and reliable).

Crones are tempting over the Haruspex I must admit. Taking Crones would probably mean upgrading one of the Tyrants with wings (not really a bad thing) so it can supervise them. Are Haruspexes really that bad though? I would like to try at least one out I think before writing them out completely.

Xyptc wrote:
Thanks for the interesting feedback so far guys.

I was tempted by a couple of Exocrine over the Tyrannofex, but for the moment I'll stick with the Tyrannofex as I already have two of them (and the Exocrine's are expensive). Plus, as stated above, Tyrannofex are incredibly durable (and reliable).

Crones are tempting over the Haruspex I must admit. Taking Crones would probably mean upgrading one of the Tyrants with wings (not really a bad thing) so it can supervise them. Are Haruspexes really that bad though? I would like to try at least one out I think before writing them out completely.

Harpies and Crones don't need supervision, LD 10 I believe?

They are fearless so irrelevant.

I feel like everyone with an army who's been punked by Taudar for the last 6 months just wants to rain on every new codex's parard with endless amounts of negativity.

It's like a bunch of 9 year-olds pointing fingers and saying, "Oh yeah?! Well my dad could beat up your dad!"

ductvader wrote:

Xyptc wrote:
Thanks for the interesting feedback so far guys.

I was tempted by a couple of Exocrine over the Tyrannofex, but for the moment I'll stick with the Tyrannofex as I already have two of them (and the Exocrine's are expensive). Plus, as stated above, Tyrannofex are incredibly durable (and reliable).

Crones are tempting over the Haruspex I must admit. Taking Crones would probably mean upgrading one of the Tyrants with wings (not really a bad thing) so it can supervise them. Are Haruspexes really that bad though? I would like to try at least one out I think before writing them out completely.

Harpies and Crones don't need supervision, LD 10 I believe?

they are indeed leadership 10

Shingen wrote:They are fearless so irrelevant.

Not so, fearless does not make you immune to instinctive behavior test. Synapse gives you fealess and immunity... So harpies and crones still test, leadership 10, but still test.

astro_nomicon wrote:I feel like everyone with an army who's been punked by Taudar for the last 6 months just wants to rain on every new codex's parard with endless amounts of negativity.

It's like a bunch of 9 year-olds pointing fingers and saying, "Oh yeah?! Well my dad could beat up your dad!"

I sure hope my comments did not come off as such. If they did then i apologize. I like the new book i really do. I think it has great units and all around diesal builds. My comments were only echoing a dark eldar list potential against the particular list the OP made.

On the Dark Eldar note, I fully accept that a list of fast skimmers with a lot of high strength/low AP weapons, and even more Poisoned weapons, is going to be a pain for this sort of list. In many ways Dark Eldar feel like the hard counter to Tyranids; there is nothing that springs to mind that hoses them like they hose us. While not an ideal situation, I've accepted that and know that it will always be an uphill struggle.

Aside from winged Tyrants and Crones, I'm at a loss to what could really make a good "anti Dark Eldar" list.

In the case of a Godzilla army, I would hope to stay close together, use cover of all sorts as best I could and play to kill any Dark Eldar that make the mistake of coming within reach. They have to go for the objectives sooner or later, and letting things like a Tyrannofex get entrenched is something even a Dark Eldar list wants to avoid in my opinion.

Has anyone actually tried making use of one or more Haruspex in a list like this? That is the unit I really want to talk about at the moment, because they are the ones I a) haven't bought yet and b) would be most likely to drop in favour of something else (Crones).

truthfully with so much that remove or ignore cover saves I really don't feel the need for a Venomthrope thats just my two cents.. I want to like the Haruspex but it is slow moving and just screams shoot me before it will ever see combat...

Hive Crone has leadership 10 so failing IB is rare, but can happen and haven't built up my Excorine yet and looking forward to putting it on the table, but ran two mawlocs yesterday and I have to say those things are fun..

2 mawlocs and 3 biovores would work well I think. You should be able to take out some markerlights before they can take cover from the thropes.